Holy Ghost – Holy Spirit- holy Spirit – holy spirit
 

The KJB 5 times uses holy Spirit, 1 time Holy Spirit, and 1 time holy spirit and uses Holy Ghost 90 times in 89 verses.

The holy Spirit is used 3 time in ASV, holy spirit not found

NKJV, holy Spirit 4 times, and holy spirit not found

NLT, NIV, Holy Spirit is used in all cases.

Why do you suppose they did this?
How important is it?

When perversion versions first started getting rooted in the church, they use to say it was just the way in the times they thought ghost was a spirit. I did not know better to answer that the King James Bible uses Holy Spirit also, but the real question what is the real difference?

I believe that Holy Ghost is used to ID the third person of the trinity.
The capitalization is questionable.

Studying this , interesting point, if I find any truth or enlightenment in the subject by the grace of God I will let you know.

You're close to the bed rock of the problem. People think that Ghost and spirit mean the same or can't mean the same thing. it is both with the scholars whomade teh translations depending on what point they are trying to make.

In essence the scholars have taken the role to be the authority on the Scriputre instead of God. in short they have become gods the same way the serpent said they would if they changed the word of God. See Genesis Chapter 3 for the perversion the serpent and Eve make of the words of God, by questioning the word, by ading to the word and by taking away from the word. All these the scholars do when they make their new translations.

Holy
 

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Close is not accurate, we are right on top of it. I believe that perversion versions actually infect the believer. So many times I read or hear people talk, and they use Holy Spirit, or any various capitalization of holy spirit. It is like they are unaware of any difference that the word of God has made and have bought into the versions perversion translations of the Holy Ghost. It may be that they never studied or thought about the difference, and why not? It is the most blatant change in the word of God, all version perversions has this in commonality, none use Holy Ghost. Come on people, we should know better. Think about it, why would we follow the path perverted versions have laid.

Follow up question that relates to this is;

Is the holy Spirit of promise used in the verse;
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Ephesians 1:13

Is the holy Spirit the Holy Ghost, or is the Holy Spirit the Holy Ghost, is the holy spirit the Holy Ghost?

Is your spirit holy?

Chette, there are other infections but this one I think seems more important.

Holy Ghost
 

I can see that most do not have a thought to share on Holy Ghost, I know this is a hard subject, but can we hear from you?

In regards to the Holy Ghost, I think that it has to do with Deity

1 John 5:7
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." (verse omitted from NIV)

Modern versions remove a witness, the Holy Ghost, therefore the Godhead is denied

as for the case issue, I honestly don't know, But in All cases the Holy Ghost is capitalized, referring to him as a person and a member of the Godhead

But why the Holy Spirit, and holy Spirit, and holy spirit?

In Psalm 51 when David mentions the holy spirit, this psalm I believe was written when David was backslidden after he had the affair with Bathsheba got her pregnant than had Uriah killed, could he be using it in the lower case to signify unworthiness of God's Holy Spirit possibly, I am not sure, do you think that the case of the letters really makes a difference ?

It all does, does it?

I guess when the LORD sees fit Scott, we will ourselves be enlightened on the subject or some other brother will add to the topic:)

Apparently he has already enlightened us on the subject, the King James Translator where enlightened on the subject, however we choice not the deal with it due to the implications that they bring. What do you think the implication could be? Is the holy Spirit, Holy Spirit, and holy spirit different than the Holy Ghost?

This is a great study for me.
 

Thank you for the thought. I am going to do more research on this topic. Initially, I do believe there is a difference or they would all be the same. I know there are many references with the single word spirit or Spirit. The word holy Spirit would reference the Holy Ghost as an individual being, and Holy Spirit a reference to the Triune Diety of Christ. I feel I need to study more to feel secure in my belkief on this topic.

I will do some research too, I just thought of a few things, I will post it as soon as I have some time.:)

Conjector on the Holy Ghost has been nelgected, you can see just how people write and talk.
If they cared enough then they would deal with it.
But the problem is that it rocks their boat, and we can't have that!:)

Your true colours are starting to shine through my friend. I will not add comment on a topic until I have studied the word of God and He has given me something to write about and am grounded in what I am writing. God does not reveal all when asked right there and then, its given by His will and His will alone. Your posts lately have not been coming from the angle of one who seeks truth but one who seeks to sow discord.

Judge anyway you want, I would just like anyone to anwser why. Nearly 400 years and all the doctrines that men have, you would think someone would a lest a opinion to toss around.

Ok take a minute and judge yourself by your own words.

I rocked your boat with Alex Jones. Were you receptive to the truth I shared?

I have never called you any names nor likened you to hypocrates. But you have done that to me.

Why? because I rocked your boat.

it is just that some only have only oar in the water and others have no oars and just float around.

head for shore and take a break you have your boat full with all your posts in different forums. seems you need to unload your hold and clean up.

I am sorry i did not mean to likened you to a hypocrate, but the point I meant was the other thing should not be left undone.\\

You know Chette, I am starting to think most these doctrines don't mean anything. If we are going to rock each other boat, I would rather just agree with you. So peace, I wish only to filter through and find the truth without disagreeing with any of you.
If you answer my question I appreciate it, if you have anything that helps I'll listen.
Again peace

Scott,

2 Timothy 4:2
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine

Let me make it quite clear that I am not judging you, I think that you are focusing more on questions that are far from where you should be starting when it comes to understanding fundamental doctrines and truth's.
I have never thought on the topic you brought up with this post, and I most certainly wont wade in when I have no opinion formed on the subject. I have prayed that God will show me in HIS time, so it is left there. Brother, I suggest you do the same.

You quoted
"Judge anyway you want, I would just like anyone to anwser why. Nearly 400 years and all the doctrines that men have, you would think someone would a lest a opinion to toss around."
The underlined is your problem, you are focused on doctrines of men. If an opinion has not been formed on the subject in 400 years then its almost certainly not going to be established in the space of a post.

Hebrews 13:9
Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

Romans 8:24-16
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered

Thanks for your input

The subject has a lot of ramifications. The King James Translators and well as it editors have their reasons. But little is said about it, I think we are all hesitating.

I do not think the holy Spirit is reference to the Holy Ghost. Although many do, I think when Holy Ghost is used it is refering to the third person of the Trinity.

holy Spirit could be a referal to

[KJ] And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: Ezekiel 11:19
[KJ] Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? Ezekiel 18:31
[KJ] A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. Ezekiel 36:26

Re: Holy Ghost – Holy Spirit- holy Spirit – holy spirit

Aloha brother Scott,

Your quote: I believe that you are making "a mountain out of a molehill" or possibly "straining at a gnat".

The Greek manuscripts (UNCIALS = All Capital Letters; MINUSCULES = Upper & Lower Case Letters) are of little or no "help" in determining why the King James Translators chose to capitalize or not to capitalize holy-Holy or spirit-Spirit.

I would not try to make some hard, fast, inflexible "rule" about their choices, because it is impossible (I checked out spirit-Spirit when I did my study on the Heart). Read the context of the verse (verses) in which you find the word, and let the "context" determine the meaning - NOT some prescribed inflexible "rule" that will only lead you into error. :confused:

I think that there is a reason for every thing that is written in this glorious Book of books. The reason will not contradict any other teachings of the Bible, so looking for something to get all abuzz about is useless. Personally I don't know why these words are the way they are. Knowing the answer to this question will not change what I believe, so I am not to worried about it. Is there something to be gained by understanding why the secretaries (some call them the translators) of God's Words chose to write these Words in the way that they did? I think so. But I, myself, can only attest to the fact that I haven't a clue on this one. Why did Lot offer his daughters to the filthy sodomites in Sodom? And why did God still call him a righteous man (likely because he still believed God and God accounted it to him as righteousness). One can always find things in the Bible to question, but we should be careful which ones we choose to get all bent out of shape about. (2 Timothy 2:23, Titus 3:9)

Peace and Love,
Stephen

That's cool, but revsions bible change Holy Ghost to Holy Spirit is that ok?

They use to say that the King James did it because Ghost and Spirit because they didn't know any better.

However the King James does use holy Spirit and Holy Spirit, there is a reason and it is amazing that little thought and discussion is done on this.

I do think that the implications are profound, but I am not sure either. I was hoping some the higher heads would have something more definitive so as a reasoning can arise.
What is the difference, surly there is a reason that is not out of our reasoning and that faith can come out of it.
I know the changes by preversion versions have there reason what it there reasoning.

Not only do they do that but they also remove holy from Holy Chost.

I just have a hard time believing there is no blessing in the understanding of this issue.

It is not like a question from bibical events that arises, like Lot, but it is a translational issue, that deals this the Godhead.

The hearing of the word that faith arises from, is it a weighter matter of faith?

Psalms 31:5 Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O LORD God of truth.

John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

These are the verses that contain Truth and Spirit within them. I think this is important to help us to distinguish that there is a difference between the Spirit in Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, and the spirit of truth. Now webster's 1828 dictionary says this about 'spirit'

SPIR'IT, n. L. spiritus, from spiro, to breathe, to blow. The primary sense is to rush or drive.

1. Primarily, wind; air in motion; hence, breath. All bodies have spirits and pneumatical parts within them. This sense is now unusual.

2. Animal excitement, or the effect of it; life; ardor; fire; courage; elevation or vehemence of mind. The troops attacked the enemy with great spirit. The young man has the spirit of youth. He speaks or act with spirit. Spirits, in the plural, is used in nearly a like sense. The troops began to recover their spirits.

3. Vigor of intellect; genius. His wit, his beauty and his spirit. The noblest spirit or genius cannot deserve enough of mankind to pretend to the esteem of heroic virtue.

4. Temper; disposition of mind, habitual or temporary; as a man of a generous spirit, or of a revengeful spirit; the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit. Let us go to the house of God in the spirit of prayer.

5. The soul of man; the intelligent, immaterial and immortal part of human beings. See Soul. the spirit shall return to God that gave it. Eceles. 12.

6. An immaterial intelligent substance. Spirit is a substance in which thinking, knowing, doubting, and a power of moving do subsist. Hence,

7. An immaterial intelligent being. By which he went and preached to the spirit in prison. I Pet. 3. God is a spirit. John 4.

8. Turn of mind; temper; occasions; state of the mind. A perfect judge will read each work of wit, with the same spirit that its author writ.

9. Powers of mind distinct from the body. In spirit perhaps he also saw Rich Mexico, the seat of Montezume.

10. Sentiment; perception. You spirit is too true, your fears too certain.

11. Eager desire; disposition of mind excited and directed to a particular object. God has made a spirit of building succeed a spirit of pulling down.


12. A person of activity; a man of life, vigor or enterprise. The watery kingdom is no bar to stop the foreign spirits, but they come.

13. Persons distinguished by qualities of the mind. Such spirits as he desired to please, such would I choose for my judges.

14. Excitement of mind; animation; cheerfulness; usually in the plural. We found our friend in very good spirits. He has a great flow of spirits. -To sing thy praise, would heaven my breath prolong, Infusing spirits worthy such a song.

15. Life or strength of resemblance; essential qualities; as, to set off the face in its true spirit. The copy has not the spirit of the original.

16. Something eminently pure and refined. Nor doth the eye itself, that most pure spirit of sense, behold itself.

17. That which hath power or energy; the quality of any substance which manifest life, activity, or the power of strongly affecting other bodies; as the spirit of wine or of any liquor.

18. A strong, pungent or stimulation liquor, usually obtained by distillation, as rum, brandy, gin, whiskey. In America, spirit, used without other words explanatory of its meaning, signifies the liquor distilled from cane-juice, or rum. We say, new spirit, or old spirit, Jamaica spirit, &c.

19. An apparition; a ghost.

20. The renewed nature of man. Matt 26. Gal. 5.

21. The influences of the Holy Spirit. Matt. 22.

However, these definitions are not from the Holy Bible. One must compare spiritual with spiritual. So read these with a grain of salt. It would be good to look at the context of each usage of the words in question to see which is which. This would take quite some time since there are 456 instances of spirit in the Holy Bible, and 108 of ghost.

Just my twocents(tm).

Peace and Love,
Stephen

[QUOTE][QUOTE]

Thanks for taking a shot at this Stephen.:) I did notice the perversion versions do use ghost in some instances, I guess they didn't know that spirit and ghost is the same thing.;)
I don't think that studying Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit is strain a gnat, but would be closer to a weightier matter of faith and mercy.
I do notice that many King James readers would write Holy Spirit rather than Holy Ghost even though Holy Ghost is used in 89 verses and Holy Spirit once, I think that is curious and a possible infection past on by perversion versions.

Why Holy Ghost?

The words ‘spirit, Spirit and Ghost’ are all translations of the same Greek word ‘pneuma’. The KJV uses Ghost 90 times. Many have wondered why they used Ghost instead of spirit. Today the word ‘ghost’ connotes a disembodied spirit. However, in the time of the translation it did not have reference to a disembodied spirit.

Originally ghost came from the word ghuest, meaning a guest. (Ghuest itself was derived from the old English ‘gast’, the Old Saxon ‘gest’, and the Old High German ‘geist’.) In passage of time usage changed ghuest to ghost. However, it still retained the meaning of a guest when the KJV was translated. By using ghost in reference to the Holy Spirit, the translators emphasised that the Spirit is a guest. What then is the Holy Ghost? He is the Holy Guest, the one who makes His abode in the heart of the believer. Did not our Lord say that He would not leave us without a Comforter? As host to such a wondrous Guest, we ought not to grieve Him, but cultivate fellowship with the Holy Ghost or Holy Guest.

strongmeat

Interesting info friend. Thanks for posting, strongmeat (odd name I might add...). Oh and welcome to the forums.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

What is yet address then is why did the translator use Holy Spirit, then in Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
If they where using Ghost instead of Spirit for your reasoning the mystery is why Holy Spirit, holy Spirit, and holy spirit?

"Ghost" does not mean "Guest". That is not only unbiblical, but an unscientific use of etymology.

Also, there are quite a number of times when the word "spirit" lowercase from 1611 is now "Spirit" capital in the KJB today, and vice versa. I have done research on this issue in my book, a draft is available on my website.

I have tried and tried to get someone to express there thoughts on this subjects and it is like people are afraid to say anything with substance, at least strongmeat made an effort, nice try but I would have to agree with bibleprotector on this one, the Holy Ghost is not a guest I happen to be his temple, bought and paid for.
I notice people still will say Holy Spirit when they are talking about the Holy Ghost, I just don’t know if the Perversion Versions have infected or confused them with the difference, but I really think most people have not even meditated on the difference.
A touchy subject to say the least, however if we can’t talk about it here where can we, I think it may touch their doctrinal beliefs in a way they are unable to deal with. Lets open up people, after all it us who have receive the love of the truth.
I just think the Holy Ghost is an important subject.

Perhaps you see issues where there are none? What do you hope to accomplish by pressing so hard on this issue? Holy Spirit IS in the King James Bible. Your post sounds like you think people are guilty of some sort of compromise with the reading of corrupt bible versions.

Just a word of caution Scott. I've heard certain groups of people press this issue before. I hope you aren't pressing this issue for the reason they often try to. Don't think I'm accusing you of anything. I'm only pointing out that your pushing this issue like you've been doing makes it appear you have an ulterior motive.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

That's cool:cool:, Stephen, its just been something that is not address and very little dealt with, because there are so few King James sites. If we can't hammer it out here where else. We need commincation on this subject, no compromising accused. An issue would be not really a correct approach unless the subject raises one. 7 times holy spirit is used in various capitalizations, 89 verses use Holy Ghost, there is something there, it means something, I would like help from those who at least read the bible, can't go anywhere else unless you have a suggestion. You guys are it, sorry you believe there is a real bible and like it or not you are my best help.:)
Peace and Love to you to
Scott

Hello,

I am wondering the same thing, there has to be a reason. God is perfect, his word is perfect. I actually heard on a talk show that we KJVers make a big deal about that. The person actually just reads the KJV but does not believe that thee and thou etc. make a difference, and then he mentioned about the Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost saying it didn't matter, this is one of the reasons I am starting to search this out so I can answer, there are so many things in the KJV that show how very perfect our God is. I have been praying Psalm 119:18
Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law. I have to agree with Scott. I found that Holy Ghost is in NT only and 89 times and 7 Times Holy Spirit, Psalm 51:11, Isa 63:10, 11, Luke 11:13, Eph 1:13, 4:30 and 1Thes 4:8 according to Biblegateway.

I think Gail Riplinger may have some insight. www.avpublications.com

Excuse me; as a newcomer, this is the first time I've seen this thread. I've read it prayerfully, and dismissed nothing out of hand; and, by the grace of God, I am always willing and eager to be edified and enlightened by my brethren.

But I must say, in all humility and charity, that this is gnat-straining at its most preposterous. The Holy Spirit is the Holy Ghost is the Spirit of Truth is the Comforter. The fact that there are different terms only demonstrates the creativity and versatility of the One Who gave the words by inspiration.

What is a "ghost?" Supposedly, the returned spirit of one who has died.

That's precisely what the Holy Spirit is: the Spirit of Christ.

Forgive me if I sound abrupt, but this is a tempest in a teapot.

Re: Holy Ghost – Holy Spirit- holy Spirit – holy spirit
 

Aloha brother Vendetta Ride,

I am in total agreement with you brother! :) This is someone trying to make a "mountain" out of a "molehill"! :confused:

I've been reading the King James Bible for over 50 years and it never occurred to me (No - not once), that there is a "problem" with the different expressions. And why it "bothers" Scott is beyond me! :eek:

Don't be "bashful" in Posting brother. I have read nearly all of your Posts and they are both respectful and appropriate, and I am sure that there are many other brethren on this Forum that appreciate both your comments and your presence here on this Forum as much as I do. :)

Same here, on all accounts.

Thank you, brethren. It's not that I'm shy; I'm just trying not to be obnoxious, which is, perhaps, a possibility for me!

:D

http://baptist1611.phpbb3now.com/use...ies/tape10.gif

:p

Hello, Brother George and others....Ok, I am going to explain why it might be a big deal to Scott and others. [and put myself in position for some charitable :rolleyes: scathing criticism as well] I myself have actually waited to see if this issue would ever come up....I am KJVO, I have convictions why I am, but I am one of those who cannot be dogmatic about terms such as "word perfect" and "letter perfect" about any translation....Here's an illustration why there is a problem: back in the 80's our old buddy Jimmy Swaggert;) began teaching [and selling tapes] that, well, I'll quote him: "You've received the Holy Spirit, but you HAVEN'T received the Holy Ghost" [don't know how many of these messages he sold, but, knowing what happened to him, it must have been interesting to say the least:D].....Now I'm all for what Brother Vendetta said, I agree 100%, he nailed it on the head, but if I want to be "all in" for word perfect and letter perfect, would I not also have to agree with Jimmy Swaggert ?. [which is madness]...Holy Ghost is Holy Spirit, but [am I not seeing something correctly] Ghost and Spirit are not the same word obviously....so, reiterating, there isn't an issue unless one uses terms like word perfect and letter perfect [and maybe I am not understanding these terms, so please forgive me if I'm not].....God bless....Scott