Who Are Those Guys???
 

Pardon the cheeky reference to a line from a movie, but it seemed apropos. Reason being is, at times, I wonder who I am, and wonder if it matters along with wondering what and why people ask me some of the things they do. As of 3 years ago I know I have given myself wholly over to God through Jesus Christ, I know that the KJV is the real deal hands down, I know I have a one of the best Bibles out there for study (Thompson) and just bought a Ryrie this very evening as my Christmas gift to me because of you folks here so that is covered, got a Strong's and ESword, and I love the God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. Here is the thing...I love to study and research as I ponder God's word and have used as a part of my study the teachings of John MacArthur. I use his study Bible (NKJV until recently because Thomas Nelson figured it would sell better than what John uses, the NASB) and recently was given his complete commentary as a gift. Now, I do not use the text of the NKJV, but the notes only. What does this make me? Calvinist? Arminian? Pre or post millenialist? A dispensationalist (John refers to himself as a "leaky" dispensationalist...whatever that means)?

Does it matter and why are people asking me these things? Does it matter that I have been using these study aids? Can anyone give me some insight into this?

John is as leaky of a dispensationalist as one can get. He is the champion of Lordship Salvation these days, so I would mark him and avoid him.

Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. (Romans 16:17 KJV)

Here are some links, from David J. Stewart (the watchdog against LS and its false teachers), on some of the things you've mentioned.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False.../macarthur.htm

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False...ce_refutes.htm

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False...tion/proof.htm

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Books..._salvation.htm

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False...on/foolish.htm

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False...n/lordship.htm

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False...on_exposed.htm

http://onetruegod.wordpress.com/cate...xposed/page/2/

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/kirk_cameron.htm

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolve...hurs_words.htm

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible...rthur-lame.htm (on your commentary)

Concerning Calvinism and Arminianism; they are both wrong. However, Calvinism is the king of heresies in my not so humble opinion. You know the story of Adam, Eve and the serpent right? How that Eve blamed the serpent, and Adam blamed Eve? Calvinism at it's logical conclusion blames God. :eek:

What you need to do is focus on that King James Bible and let your title be King James Bible Believer.

I will also add, so as to not sound to hypocritical, that on my Facebook page I call myself a Pretribulational, Premillennial, Free-Grace Dispensational, King James Bible Believing Baptist. *PHEW* :pound:

For Jesus' sake,
Stephen

Wow...Don't Exactly Feel The Love There...
 

Now that was an interesting departure. I felt like the guy was petitioning that I go straight to hell with not even a stop to bow my knee. When people go off on someone like that it makes me want to look in their closet, under their bed, or in the trunk of their car. I must say a few things...first, and maybe this is true because I am new at this, I have done some listening to John in my growth and read some of his stuff and have to say that I have never come across anything that would put that big a bee in my bonnet. I mean, it would be great if he would come to the Light and use a KJV. What I did see was a lot of little blurbs taken out of context and commented on. Anything can seem bogus with that approach...even the Bible. Second, I have come up in a "front line" ministry and there are plenty of things I have experienced from working with "experienced and long-time" followers that would lead me to believe that they haven't read all the parts of the Bible yet. Third, I don't have very much trouble understanding the Bible. I like study and reference Bibles, hence my interest in the notes and commentary. Anything that has to do with history is what I am looking for. I'm a fairly sharp cookie and have been to the circus a couple of times, so getting the drop on me isn't as easy as some might think. Besides, God tells me a lot of stuff, and I know it is Him because I can verify what I am hearing by checking it in Scripture...the KJV one...:D

Guess I better cancel that Ryrie Bible I ordered tonight.

"John MacArthur clearly teaches that every believer is NOT assured a home in Heaven."

Well...he said that on his web tirade, and, I guess that makes me condemned because I can walk into just about any church today and show you a whole bunch of folks that say their believers who'll beggin' for water alongside that rich guy. I gotta work at it everyday...the adversary doesn't let up just because someone says "thank you, Jesus". Spiritual warfare is as real as anything I have ever experienced in my wildest dreams and worst nightmares. There's that thing in Romans 8.31...keeps me going, and the very nanosecond I forget that Scripture is the day...well...I guess I'll be leaning on my own understanding.

Is this guy one of those once saved always saved guys? I've heard of them...

I heartily agree with you, Stephen, in that the bottom line is study. I know that is true because I read somewhere that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.

And I have no more of an idea as to what lordship salvation is than I know about driving a nuclear submarine...

Well Brother, not entirely sure where you are coming from, but Lordship Salvation has two heads. One of them is Calvinism, and stems from the perseverance of the saints teaching, that God will enable a believer to live a Holy life until the end (that in it's simplest form is truth, but I won't go into the falsities in the perserverance of the saints doctrine). The other, uglier head is that of the Arminian side, that salvation must be kept through works after salvation is recieved by grace.

Salvation is entirely of grace through faith. Faith in Christ's blood. David Stewart (the author of those articles) is a once saved always saved guy... not sure if you said that because you are not, I couldn't really follow sorry.

But I am sure you will find plenty of people here willing to defend eternal security. I doubt you could go into any church and show me anyone that you knew 100% for sure or not was going to heaven or hell. That is not something you could possibly know, and you would only be judging by the fruits that YOU would see.

I am blessed to hear about your studies.

I don't mean to sound overly critical.

I'll just say one last thing brother - John MacArthur also believes in eternal security (once saved always saved).

Throughout the Book of Romans, Paul goes over the differences and similarities between salvation through works and salvation through faith.

Amen Luke. Not sure what the OPs beliefs are, but salvation is by grace through faith alone, and the saved are eternally secure in Christ.

Good points and I do thank you folks for piping up. This is all very confounding to a person who likes to keep it simple. If the people I read about in Scripture can be people of God, anyone can. It is up to God...not us. God asks us to do the footwork per His instructions and faith gives us works and by our works are we known because the fruit is there. God does His footwork also. The who what where when how and why of that is not for me to worry think ponder or consider but pray about and seek an answer which will come in God's time frame. If that is incorrect, God will let me know.

That little simplistic and childish thing said, I must say that I surely do enjoy this site. It is informative. I ordered a Bible yesterday, and thanks to where this site led me and some serious prayer, the order will be canceled. That saves me some time and effort, keeps my mind straight as far as how to study Scripture, and saves me 100 dollars to boot.

What's an "OP"?

Praise His Holy Name and blessings upon all...

"OP" is short for "original poster" :)

Sounds like a good decision on the Ryrie, that's what I had before my Thompson and I'm glad I switched. Notes on the same page as the text isn't the greatest thing, as it tends to make you rely more on the author's notes, instead of the Spirit's leading.

Happy studying!

Gonna go dig into...well...I don't know. Let's see where the Book falls open.:D

Thanks, Josh...I did some research on the Ryrie and found that he is also a follower of the "new" texts in that he occasionlly explains the KJV texts with the old "this verse/word/whatever is not in the better manuscripts" in his study notes. I get enough of that out of MacArthur and why, when the dust settles, I have always truly/diligently/lovingly trusted Dr. Thompson's method.

I have always wondered, and maybe this is for another forum and if so apologies here ahead of time, why do those folks who insist that the the KJV is...how do I be nice about this...archaic, and feel the need to justify their erudition by those statements? Seems as if they are feelin' guilty about something.

KJV + Strong's = All you need

Aloha brother Steve,

Please check out these former Posts in regards to "study" Bibles,etc. - they may be of some interest to you, and possibly even some help.

http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...39&postcount=1
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...6&postcount=10
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...71&postcount=1

Also in regards to "The Inspiration of Scripture" you might want to check out these real fine essays from Moses LemuelRaj, a brother in Christ from India:

http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...19&postcount=1

And lastly you may want to check out my Thread on "Why I Believe In The King James Bible" at:

http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...78&postcount=1

There are many fine Christian brothers on this Forum who can be of a great help and encouragement to Christians everywhere. There are others who come here (and they normally don't stay for very long) to "show off" their knowledge and expertise; or to argue and debate and to "strain at gnats".

You will have to judge who is sincerely interested in edifying the brethren, and who is seeking to divide us, or confuse us. Or there may be some who may be seeking disciples to follow them.

In earnestly contending for the faith, we may (at times) "offend" someone. However, I, for one, do not do these things out of malice, or just to be offensive. I "contend for the faith" because that is what God has commanded us (Christians) to do:

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

In today's Humanistic climate it is considered "Politically Incorrect" to say what you mean, and to mean what you say; however, our Lord always spoke the truth, and so did his disciples and apostles (regardless of people's "feelings"), so I figure that I am in pretty good company if I try to do the same.

Please check out the Posts I listed and any others that may be of interest to you. If you use the "Search" feature on this Forum you will find a whole lot of information about Bible issues that may be of interest to you (Just type in a word and go for it!).

Enjoy the Forum - I think it's the best on the net, but of course I'm biased and prejudiced! :)

The best way that I have found to study, is by book, verse by verse. I have been in I Peter for 2 1/2 weeks now, and I'm still in chapter 3.
Just take it slow and find all other verses that support each other, and you will find that the Bible will be the best interpreter.

In response to George and Scott, I have probably misrepresented myself on this "study/reference" Bible thing. The best reference Bible for me is a Thompson. I stay away from study Bibles pretty much altogether because God is the commentator I am interested in hearing. His word is FINAL imho:) There might be some historical or trivial data or some such thing in the study notes that interests me. Once long ago there came to me a commentary regarding Jesus and His references to the yoke. Amazing historical stuff. That is the good part of those types of extracurricular information sources.

Matter of fact, I rarely if ever use anything but my TCR text and my Strongs. I was given the "study" Bibles and commentaries. They were gifts, and occasionally I use them, as I do opinions and information on the internet, or ESword on my computer. Again, God is the only authority I recognize.

Call me anything you wish. The only thing I am called that is going to matter is when God calls me "good and faithful servant". It's gonna be a stretch, but I am sure that if I just keep following the instructions in this book...the whole book...I am in there. Thank you, Jesus!!!

:amen: brother! The Apostle Paul wanted the Word brought to him in 2 Timothy 4:13, not commentary on it! The Holy Spirit will guide us as we "study to show thyself approved unto God,".

Hello Brother Steve. Personally, I cling to the title Christian. "...And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch" (Acts 11:26). The "doctrine" we support and proclaim on this Forum, of course, will indeed label us. I imagine people ask "what we are" because they are attempting to see what we believe. Titles help to identify what we believe.

In saying that, I simply want to be known as Brother Forrest, a man who loves and follows Jesus Christ. We should simply prayerfully listen, diligently learn, passionately love the word, and vehemently loathe false doctrine.

Saturate your mind with the Bible book, chapter, paragraph, verse, or word the Holy Spirit directs you to. Like sheep, we chew, absorb, store, and then bring it back again to chew some more! If I do not "hear" the Holy Spirit speaking to me in a certain passage, I move on.

I also encourage you to "see" and "hear" the Good Shepherd (the Lord Jesus Christ) in the word. I recommend that you memorize passages of scripture that specifically teach on and exalt the person of Christ; there are many: Psalm 23, Matthew 11:28–30, John 15:1–5, Colossians 2:6–10, and Ephesians 1:15–23 to name just a few.

The benefit of memorizing key scriptures is that you can go over these passages any where and any time. As you quote these passages, and meditate on each word, you will begin to discover new and refreshing insights.

As you fix your mind specifically on Christ something will begin to happen. He will become very real and intimately personal. You will begin seeing Him in the Holy Scriptures. He will become your dearest and closest friend. Each day you will start thinking more on Christ and less on yourself. At night as you drift off to sleep, Christ will be on your mind. When you wake-up in the morning, He will be on your mind. It will soon become a normal and habitual part of your daily life to think on Christ and His fullness.

It is the will of God the Father that Jesus Christ be the central focus in our life. I am not suggesting we abandon the other "doctrines" in the Bible, I am saying all truth is fulfilled in Christ. "For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell" (Colossians 1:19). "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" (Colossians 2:9). In addition, He has the preeminence in all things. He is head of the church. He has a name above every name, every knee will bow to Him; things on the earth (all people), in heaven (all angels), and things beneath the earth (all demons). Christ is the beginning as well as the end, the Creator of all things. All things were created by Him and for Him. He is head of all principality, power, might, and dominion. All power is given to Him in Heaven and in earth. He is Lord of lords and King of kings.

And if we follow the person of, and the example of, the Lord Jesus Christ we will in turn seek the will of God the Father. "Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him" (John 8:28-29).

Finally, remember that the Spirit filled life is a life filled with Jesus Christ.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:13-14 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Sorry to rant...but most of all, we should love Jesus. Everything else seems to line-up when we do.

By the way, the below link is a remarkable tool for Bible study. It was created by our Forum administrator and is trustworthy. I have used it for about 2 months and love it.

http://www.swordsearcher.com/

Amen Forrest!!!! That was a wonderful post!!

I have been using ESword...you think it is better? Since I canceled the Ryrie order I have a couple of bucks saved up to buy my Christmas present to me.

Great post, by the way, Forrest...things I heartily agree with and have certainly experienced before. Another nice thing about the Bible study class here is that everyone has the same textbook. My ladyfriend is in a Bible study where everyone has a different translation. She is going through the muck and mire on that one. I bought her first an NLT Recovery Bible, then a MacArthur NKJV Study Bible...but, she's grown up enough now and I will be passing on my old TCR KJV to her this Christmas. That one comes with notes!!!

Brother Steve, the "free" trial version gives you a hint...but there is so much more. Check it out on the link and read all it has to offer. For the money, it is an extraordinary deal.

Well, Brother Forrest...if you see my post over at the Leather Bound PCE thread, I just spent God's money on a couple of new Bibles, so, for a while I am going to keep going with my ESword. I did download the trial run program and like it so far. Wonderful program.

Perhaps my eyesight is deteriorating worse than I thought, but I didn't see the earlier reference to OPs. Are you referring to the Orthodox Presbyterian denomination? If so, I know them well.

I am a "20% Calvinist." I believe that the so-called Perseverence of the Saints is the only one of Calvin's five points that is scriptural. However, it's very scriptural, and is really no different than the doctrine of eternal security. I am a Baptist, but in the early years of my Christian life I was a Presbyterian, and God gave me some great teachers and mentors in that group. Their teachings, I see now, were not always Biblical; but the ones with whom I was involved were evangelistic, zealous for souls, and very much in love with Jesus Christ. Although I no longer number myself among them, I thank my God upon every remembrance of them.

A wise Presbyterian elder, asked if he believed in the Perseverence of the Saints, replied, "No, I don't! But I believe in the perseverence of the Savior!"

I've never heard it put better than that.......

VR, I believe "OP" stands for "original poster."

Steve54, once you get SwordSearcher (eventually.....), you'll probably not go back to E-Sword. :)

You see, kittn, I knew that all along. I was feigning ignorance in an attempt to make Steve feel at home. He was being swamped with Screeds, Manifestos, and Innuendoes, so I was merely attempting to show him that some of us are muddled and befuddled: bewitched, bothered, and bewildered, as St. Sinatra would say.....

Did you really think I was unaware of the meaning of OP? Ha ha! Not I; not wily old Vendetta....

The only part of the "Perseverence of the Saints" doctrine that I agree with is that we are eternally secure. I can't agree with any more of it, since it states that God keeps those who are saved, that only those elected by God are saved, and that if someone does fall away or denounce the faith, they were never truely saved, thus not one of the elect. :doh:

I am going to shock and maybe infuriate some people here today, If so I am sorry, but I do not regret what I say.
God met me in 1992 in a charismatic church, and saved me. At that time I was not even looking for the Lord, But He being true to Himself, found me and saved me. I believe that God had saved me at this point (it is His salvation, and not mine). But being in a charismatic church at the time, the Bible (God's Word) was secondary, experience was primary. Needless to say, in the couple of years that followed, I slid back into my old ways.
God, being faithful, started putting people in the way that knew the truth. And I started to see the error I was living in.
Even though the Holy Spirit was living in me, I had no idea who He was. And when I started to read the Sciptures, and found out who He is, I yielded myself to Him. Wow the things that started to happen.
What I am trying to say, is, do not knock someone on what is perceived as a particular doctrine, God may be using that person to move one of his children to the next level of relationship to Him.
I was in a charismatic church, God being faithful showed me the error of what I was in, moved me to a non-denominational church for a while (for a growth period), to a Independant Baptist church for awhile, and now I am in a church that preaches expository from the Word of God.
The point is, do not beat on what people now know. God will bring His people to the point where they know Him and want to serve Him.

Not shocking at all. Rather astute, actually. If we want to ignore and be done with the folks who don't look, sound, smell, feel, or taste like a "Christian" or "follower" or whatever, we will eliminate some pretty hefty names in history, beginning with major ones right out of our own Bible. If I have learned anything in trying to be what Jesus wants me to be (Matthew 5-7), it is that trying to outguess, outsmart, and outmaneuver God is THE losing proposition. In keeping with the painfully true constant, that mankind can mess up a home run, we ought to let God do what He does and stay out of His way.

Blessings...:amen:

Paul said, follow me as I follow Christ. Follow after what Christ is trying to teach, He is the final authority.

Aloha brother Scott,

I'm not "shocked" or "infuriated". I've "been there, and done that". Back in the mid 1960's (being a fairly new Christian) I (with my wife & children) attended an Assembly of God church for a couple of years. There was a sweet older brother in Christ (brother Fukushima) who attended and who was dying from Cancer, who took me aside and taught me about "Dispensationalism" for several months in his home (it was the first time I had ever heard of it).

Soon after he was done with his lessons he advised me to leave the church that I was attending and seek out something more "Scriptural". I left shortly thereafter, when the pastor of the church put his King James Bible on the floor of the church building and STOOD ON IT, and proclaimed: "I'm STANDING on the promises of God"! :mad: Needless to say - I "got out of Dodge pronto"! :eek: Brother Fukushima died shortly thereafter, and I am sure that he is home with our Lord.

The point is, that we have to be careful judging someone by what church he attends. (Brother Fukushima lived behind the church building and had no means of transportation, and so, he did what he could - something that no other pastor, assistant pastor, or deacon of the various churches that I had attended since I got saved in October, 1958 had done. He taught me HOW to "rightly divide the word of God".)

However, there are times that we must "contend for the faith" [Jude 1:3], because our (all Christians - not just pastors, etc.) ministry is not only made up of "Reconciliation" & "Preaching" - We must also Warn, Admonish, Reprove, and Rebuke at the appropriate time and place. This takes more than just "knowledge", it also takes "discernment", "understanding", and "wisdom".

One of the hardest parts of my Christian walk for the past 50 years is to know when and where, and to whom I should warn, or admonish, or reprove, or rebuke. These are all a part of "the whole counsel of God" that we are supposed to be defending and upholding.

I take your point seriously though. We must be careful that we don't become like the Pharisees of old; carelessly judging, instead of "judging righteous judgment".

Like pastors I know have said, God uses people that Baptists would never consider. Bro. Ron Ralph preaches a message called "Is God in Your Box?" and in it he talks about a church God set him up as pastor over within months of getting saved; the deacon's wife taught the adult Sunday School class, and though that is unbiblical in the extreme, God still used it to teach Bro. Ralph a whole lot of stuff.

Just because we wouldn't use someone doesn't mean God can't or won't. I just try to remember that God's using ME, so there's no way I can point a finger at God's servants!

I will, and will not hesitate for a second to point out error. If we preach His Word, it will not return void. I have been there and have seen it, and participated in it.
So I will call out error. No matter who and where it comes from.

:spy: Well if it took you four years to figure out "cut and paste" on the puter, you just never know, dear brother! :sorry:

I was just passing along my new-found knowledge........:D

I'm telling you, Miz Thang: I like to think of myself as a patient man, but I have my limits.....

That's not shocking. That's Bible. What would be shocking was if you said something like "I slid back into my old ways so that proved I wasn't really saved". God bless Bro :)

Praise God that is not true: sliding back into your old ways proves that you were never saved and/or have lost your salvation.

Yes, I was raised "once saved, always saved" but over the years I have found it to be true. I've fallen away and back into my old ways and each and every time I feel the Shepherd calling me back (Jn 10:27-29). I've actually felt as if I've been pulled back by the Shepherd's crook. What I mean is the internal battle where the rebellious flesh does all it can to resist the Holy Ghost, but ultimately the Holy Ghost wins - again, Praise God!

Each time I find myself pondering on what Paul asked in Romans 7:15. And as I reflect upon just what I've done I find out something else about myself and how I failed. And it is ALWAYS because I FAILED, NEVER because the Lord failed or abandonded me. I neglected the word, I neglected prayer, I ignored the escape from tempation (I Cor 10:13). I blew it. I never deserved the first chance, certainly didn't deserve the second chance...three strikes and I'm out, etc...but praise God "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1Jo 1:9) and that it never states how many times...

Harley

AMEN! Stephanos!

Thank you, Harley, for this testimony. This is very encouraging to me as I pray for loved ones that are presently not walking with the LORD. Hebrews 6 and Hebrews 10 contain some scary Scriptures about those who fall away, but I try to hold on to hope that prodigals can and do return.

Shalom,

Tandi

Those verses in Hebrews apply to Israel during the time of Jacob's trouble (aka the Tribulation) who will be required to endure to the end in order to be saved.

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. (Matthew 10:22 KJV)

A Christian cannot loose their salvation because he or she is hid in Christ and God will not condemn His son to eternity in Hell. Once a person is born again God does not impute their sins upon them. All a Christians sins have been imputed upon Christ Jesus who became sin on the Cross.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

That's Right
 

Stephanos is correct. I believe your in the wrong dispensation of time. We're under grace!:amen:

Those verses in Hebrews are about those who make a false proffesion. Just like Matthew 7:21-23.