Believers view of sin
 

Although I do not reply to often, and this is my first thread, I frequently visit and enjoy all the information shared by Bible believers. I have found it hard lately to be able to scripturally describe the feeling we should have towards sin. Many believe the Bible, go to church, and live their normal lives. Most even pray regularly, confessing their sins as they should. I read in many discussions the issue of eternal security. I believe that once saved, always saved as many put it. Still there is the issue that many believers do not think much about committing sins. I have tried to compare how sin was viewed in the Old Testament with today’s view. The Old Testament teaches that you must sacrifice your animal, or trade the equivalent of, to God for forgiveness. Even children understand that if it meant you must sacrifice your pet for stealing then this would be a deterrent from stealing. But what about today? I feel that when we realize the price that was paid for our sins and realize what Christ had to endure for us then this is more than enough of a deterrent from sin. Many still do not understand how severe sin can be to our lives as well as the lives around us. Many feel that this sin is only a little sin and they do not feel or see how important it is to stay holy. Before heading into many scriptures concerning the penalty for sins in a Christian life I am interested in this group thoughts on how to pursued fellow Christians to stay away from sin regardless of temptation by realizing its affect on us. Thank you

I've seen the effects of flippant sin in my life, and I regret every moment of it.

If a Christian isn't willing to see their own sin as God sees it, God will show it to them.

My life verse right now is

Psa 38:1 <A Psalm of David, to bring to remembrance.> O LORD, rebuke me not in thy wrath: neither chasten me in thy hot displeasure.
Psa 38:2 For thine arrows stick fast in me, and thy hand presseth me sore.
Psa 38:3 There is no soundness in my flesh because of thine anger; neither is there any rest in my bones because of my sin.
Psa 38:4 For mine iniquities are gone over mine head: as an heavy burden they are too heavy for me.
Psa 38:5 My wounds stink and are corrupt because of my foolishness.
Psa 38:6 I am troubled; I am bowed down greatly; I go mourning all the day long.
Psa 38:7 For my loins are filled with a loathsome disease: and there is no soundness in my flesh.
Psa 38:8 I am feeble and sore broken: I have roared by reason of the disquietness of my heart.
Psa 38:9 Lord, all my desire is before thee; and my groaning is not hid from thee.


Praise the Lord the end of that Psalm is

Psa 38:21 Forsake me not, O LORD: O my God, be not far from me.
Psa 38:22 Make haste to help me, O Lord my salvation.

What a good, and important question, Brother "Beltfed". I appreciate your sensitivity to "sin" and its affect on, and in, our lives. Personally, I also hate sin and long for the glorious day we are delivered from its very presence.

For me, real practical and experiential victory (not that I've stopped sinning in thoughts, words, or deeds by any means) came when I was awakened to the power and provision of Jesus Christ. When the Lord Jesus Christ really became my Lord Jesus Christ. It changed my view and counsel to fellow believers regarding sin.

First, let me say that I do believe all sin is unrighteousness and, therefore, never pleases our Father in Heaven. So please know that, like you, I also loathe it. As true believers, we are never comfortable with sin and certainly never float through life without receiving chastisement from our loving Heavenly Father.

How do I persuade others to stay away from sin, regardless of temptation?

First, I teach them to appropriate, by faith, the certain realities that belong to every believer, who is in Christ.

"And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant [the New Covenant] that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more" (Hebrews 10:11-17).

Jesus Christ has dealt with my sin, once and forever! Praise be to God for His mercy and grace. Believe it.

How do I persuade others to stay away from sin, regardless of temptation?

Second, I teach them to appropriate, by faith, the certain realities that belong to every believer, who is in Christ.

"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it" (1 Corinthians 10:13). Personally, I believe that Jesus is the way of escape.

"But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen (2 Peter 3:18).

Well put Luke and thats a lovely psalm, Well explained forrest I agree that the LORD will never allow us to bear more than we are able.
I too hate sin, I too am more aware of sin as a Born again Christian. I have a new radar as such for sin, where before I didn't think I was doing anything particularly wrong but The grace of Our LORD Jesus showed me different, for example music choice, some of the music I was listening to was sinful, secular and wrong but conviction led me to leave that behind, every day I discover something about sin in my life that I didn't realise was sin, before salvation, and I am more than sure that this will continue until the LORD calls me Home or comes for us. I long for the day when we are raised incorruptible, finally removed from the shackles of sin, what beautiful heights of ecstasy we will reach!
As for dealing with the temptation, I just get on my Knees and ask for the strength and mercy to overcome the tempter, and when I stumble I get up and try again.
For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief. Prov 24:16
I find comfort in a verse from Jeremiah and Proverbs regarding correction of my sins.

Jeremiah 10:23.24
O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.
O LORD, correct me, but with judgment; not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing.

Proverbs 3:11,12
My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction:
For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Maybe by begging them to read their Bible, and get some good teaching and preaching on the judgment seat of Christ and presumptious sin.

2 Corinthians 5:10-11 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Hebrews 10:26-31 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.



(Commentary on Heb 10:26-31
by David Sorenson)

The writer reminds his Jewish readers how that under the
law of Moses, there was no specific sacrifice for willful sin. (See
Numbers 15:30-31 and Deuteronomy 17:12.) Rather, such an
one under the law faced severe punishment, even death.
He then asks his readers to consider how much more
serious it is for one to in effect trod “under foot the Son of God,”
and count “the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was
sanctified an unholy thing?” The question is rhetorical. The
answer is obvious. If willful disregard of the law of Moses was
serious business, rejecting Christ is even more. Ignoring and
rejecting Christ is doing “despite unto the Spirit of grace.” The
word translated as despite (enubrizw enubridzo) has the sense
of ‘insulting.’ When one turns his back on Christ, rejecting
Him, he also has insulted the Holy Spirit. That is serious
business, approaching the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. There
is a parallel here with the thought presented in Hebrews 6:4-6.
The writer proceeds to remind his readers of the gravity of
such departure by quoting from Deuteronomy 32:35, Psalm
135:14, and alludes to Psalm 76:7. The God of heaven is not
dead or absentee. He is very much alive. He, in His providence,
may judge. Indeed, “it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of
the living God.”

Man, isn't that verse from Jeremiah so true! I have felt time and time again that one of these days God will deal with me in His consuming anger. I've feared it all the days I've walked in Christ Jesus. However, I know that in Christ Jesus there is now no condemnation since my sins have been seperated from me. None the less it is still a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God!

for His sake,
Stephen

EDIT: By the way, Luke that is such a heart wrenching Scripture. I nearly cried thinking of David and his struggle with sin. Like David, I can't wait to be done with this grave of a body, and be in the presence of Almighty God someday!

Being Fair Debau. This is a verse that is used to support the loss of Salvation doctrine. But that doctrinal Application is isolated to the preparation for the kingdom in most parts of the Gospels and up untilActs 9. and as found from Hebrews through Revelation.

however it has it's Spiritual application for us today in that as you quoted will stand befor the judgement seat of Christ. we will suffer loss of rewards or lack of them, weakness, sickness and sleep (death) according to 1Cor 11:30. But not lose our salvation.

Those in the great Tribulation under the Kingdom Gospel doctrine do sin wilfully and deny Christ suffeiceincy. But their Gospel though has all the qualities of grace does require works to accompany and that would be not to sin. and as such they could lose their salvation.

so Hebrews may apply today in the Spiritual Application. it cannot be implied today that there is loss of Salvation for the one who sins. Your own life bears witness to that.

Being fair here too Chette,

I do not believe this is doctrine for the Kingdom. Hebrews is addressed to saved Jews, and perhaps some unsaved that usually accompany a church.

Hebrews 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Hebrews 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Hebrews 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

Yes it was Historically written to the professing Jews prior to Pauls revelation of the Mysteries of the church and salvation by faith alone wihtout works. thsoe Jews were saved under the Kingdom Gopsel by Christ and by Peter in Acts 2.

dispensationally it is to beleiving Jews in the Tribulation to come also. you need only see what Gospel was taught to HEBREWS ONLY. the Gospel of the Kingdom which was faith on Christ PLUS WORKS.

spiritually it will apply to us only inthe application to refrain from sinfulness in our lives. BUT NO LOSS OF SALVATION.

Research your Bible you will find three Gospels inthe NT. the Gospel of the Kingdom, the Gospel of Christ and the Everlasting Gospel. Things that are different are not the same.

I do believe in dividing the Gospels, but do not find any scriptural (doctrinal) evidence that Hebrews was written for any economy other than the Gospel of grace and the revealed mystery preached to Jews and Gentiles. The evidence of the historocity of Hebrews points to sometime between the first and second imprisoment in Rome of Paul, of whom is the likely human author, penned by his scribe Timothy. In no way was there any implication of loss of salvation.

Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty; with whom, if he come shortly, I will see you.

(from Italy)
Hebrews 13:24 Salute all them that have the rule over you, and all the saints. They of Italy salute you.

Hebrews 13:25 Grace be with you all. Amen. <<Written to the Hebrews from Italy by Timothy.>>

(in prison)
Hebrews 10:34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.

you do see they have to do something or lose their position or salvation in the text you posted earlier Hebrews 10:26-31 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, that is a loss of salvation in fiery indignation because it says the fiery indignation will devour the advisaries. the advisaries are the Devil, unbeleivers, enemies of the cross, and it will devour the willful sinner.

We as beleivers today do not expect to face a firey indignation if we sin wilfully now do we? If we do then Jesus didn't make enough atonement to cover all my sins and I have to work to keep my salvation. But Christ forgiveness was for all our sin and he justified us from all things. this does not give us license to sin however.

Are you going to tell us since you been saved you never sinned wilfully? Honestly I have. do I need to fear a fiery indignation? No because I reconized that it was wrong, I confessed it to the Lord, and I repented of it, sought forgiveness and reconciliation of those involved and made restitution.

If you want to know for sure if Paul wrote the Letter to the Hebrews. you will have to see Paul's own testimony on it 2 Thessalonians 3:17 The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write. The letter to the Hebrews does not bear his own token salutation as he said his letter would have.

But if he did write it as the KJV Translaters suppossed he did, he left the token out for a reason.

Yes, it was written to Beleiving Jews not Gentiles, in this letter they are always told to do something or add something along side their faith. which is not the gospel of Grace alone in the finished work of Christ. the Jews in Tribulation are the only ones left to read it as the ones in the past are gone. Unless you think today a beleiving Jew has more required on them than we do for salvation.

Now I am very open here like I said to the spiritual or devotional apllication for Today. but the there is not Doctrinal application today.

I also admit that I can't lump all the content of the letters from Hebrews -Revelation into Tribulation for some of it is apllicable for Doctrine today in and where it agrees with Paul's teaching.

Just something I read from James Knox. I like this guys stuff but I don't always agree with him.

He thinks Jesus Christ Himself may have been the Author of the letter to the Hebrews.

Well just as good a theory as mine or yours.

and don't get me wrong just because I classify it as a hebrew book for the zjews in Tribulation. I by no means think that it releaves the christian of any duty to heed the words of admonishment found in Hebrews.

The power of the Holy Spirit.
 

Thank you so much group, reading these verses really does move me to make sure there is no sin in my life. Even the unknown sin can make God angry at me. Which is something I personally can live without? Here are some verses I found very detailed with the reference of sin in our life. How we view it, how we should view sin, and how God views the sin in our lives.
Ezekiel 8:12 Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, The LORD seeth us not; the LORD hath forsaken the earth.
Proverbs 14:9 Fools make a mock at sin: but among the righteous there is favour.
Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Luke 8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
How we should view sin.
Luke 8:17 For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.
Ephesians 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
Psalms 25:11 For thy name's sake, O LORD, pardon mine iniquity; for it is great.
Isaiah 44:20 He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there not a lie in my right hand?
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Romans 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Psalms 90:8 Thou hast set our iniquities before thee, our secret sins in the light of thy countenance.
Gods and His view of sin in our lives.
Luke 12:47-48 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
2 Peter 2:21-22 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Job 20:12-16 Though wickedness be sweet in his mouth, though he hide it under his tongue; Though he spare it, and forsake it not; but keep it still within his mouth: Yet his meat in his bowels is turned, it is the gall of asps within him. He hath swallowed down riches, and he shall vomit them up again: God shall cast them out of his belly. He shall suck the poison of asps: the viper's tongue shall slay him. ...
2 Samuel 12:14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.
Ecclesiastes 5:6 Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands?
1 Corinthians 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
2 Samuel 24:17 And David spake unto the LORD when he saw the angel that smote the people, and said, Lo, I have sinned, and I have done wickedly: but these sheep, what have they done? let thine hand, I pray thee, be against me, and against my father's house.
Psalms 40:11-12 Withhold not thou thy tender mercies from me, O LORD: let thy lovingkindness and thy truth continually preserve me. For innumerable evils have compassed me about: mine iniquities have taken hold upon me, so that I am not able to look up; they are more than the hairs of mine head: therefore my heart faileth me.
Psalms 41:4 I said, LORD, be merciful unto me: heal my soul; for I have sinned against thee.
I have found so many great verses on this subject and it touches my heart while making me desire to grow closer to Him. We must remove the sin from our lives with faith in His forgiveness. Why do we deserve such grace? I know I don’t. Praise is to God for giving me the Holy Spirit to show me the sin in my life and allowing me to overcome and live in peace with Him today.

Yeah, I've also wondered if perhaps Paul left certain parts out of Hebrews in order to mask the fact that he indeed did write it. We know that the Jews were very zealous of the law in the church in Jerusalem (and of course we don't know if Hebrews was written to them specifically) and that they had heard that Paul was now in effect an antinomian, haha. Paul was still vey much so in love with his heritage as a Jew, and I think he wanted to be a part of the ministering to them. Paul also was terribly smart and likely knew that his views on things would be discredited by the people he wished to reach even before they had a chance to read what he said. This is just a guess on my part, but I think it is likely.

Much Love in Christ,
Stephen

Yes the people would have rejected a letter form Paul and from Peter, John and any other Apostle.

Was Paul Antinomian? By secular view and somes theology maybe. But Paul beleived the Law was applicable for learning. Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

Therefore I believe Paul was not a pure antinomian in the modern sense though he believed men were free from the requirement of Law for salvation. He still felt the law played an important role for life for spiritual development.

Gods Words
 

I try not to let it bother me, but I must ask a question. Who wrote Romans or Hebrews? I stand on the belief these are the Words of God himself. Penned by man. Lets not put to much emphasis on the messenger. We have scripture only because God gave it to us. When the Pharisees thought highly of themselves for having been born directly of the lineage of Abraham, He reminded them that God could have brought forth His son from a rock if HE sought fit. God chose to use Paul to write His words down for us. I admire Paul and his mission to the Gentiles. I just find greater emphasis should be put on this being Gods words rather than having the idea mans circumstances changed the way scripture was written.

Mind you that Authorship is important. It was important to Cannon of Scripture and is important to study.

different Authors had at times different Gospels. Identifying them helps us to rightly divide the Word.

yes we all agree God gave us the word through men and the men are not the important factor because if we make teh messenger more improtant we end up in division )some or of Appolos, some of Paul some of Jesus).

but for study and understanding Gods method of using a man literary style is important.