I get so tired.....
 

I have just recently found a site called the Baptist board, it seems like a good board and I'm new so I don't know it that well.
But they have a section dedicated to Bible Versions. In that they say that you can't get into KJO contravercies, and you can't refer to the new Versions as perversions or satanic.
I just got to say that I am so tired of weak easily offended Christians. So what if someone calls the NIV corrupt, is it, when they take out Lucifer and replace it with Morning Star isn't that corrupting the Word of God,or when they take out Lord 39-40 times isn't that perverting the text.
I know this may seem a little harsh but I just don't get Christians that don't have backbones. If you want to call the AV "king Jimmys Bible" or whatever, go ahead call it what ever you wan't, I won't have to stand before God for what you say.
Also I know there are some who say that if you read another version, you can't get saved. Well I definently don't believe that, I mean even a good gospel track contains enough scripture to get saved. Course there is more to the Christian life than just getting saved, if you would rather have a bean bag instead of a Sharp two eged Sword, its your neck not mine.
I'm not aming this at anyone inpaticular, its just this Laodicean attitude, week
Christians were if the preacher preaches to hard a sermon they don't come back for a month or two.
I tell you what, I'd much rather let a Good preacher preach the hell out of me here on earth, than to have God do it at the Judgment Seat of Christ.
Well that is all, I hope all have a good day,
Josh
Oh and again, I'm not aming this at any one person, but if the shoe fits, wear it.

Just last night, my father and I hosted a missionary couple and when they heard that I was "one of them", they responded that "That controversy is useless because the only correct translations are in the original Greek and Hebrew" And after I told him that his argument had no basis and that I had defeated it before, the conversation ended.

They just plain didn't care.

NIV, 64,000 words < KJB

Nobody cares??

What are you really trying to say Jeff?:D
As you know we are in the Church Age and the Laodicean churches are a big part of that,Gods warning in Revelaion 7 churches. The only problem is when preachers quit preaching prophesy they are leaving out critical warnings to mankind. People simply do not pick up on this,because,like sin,it is not being taught. My background is Independant Baptist,but i am at a Quaker church,eventhough the preacher believes the same as we do,this church is a perfect example,(maybe that is why the cogregation has increased about 25% in the last 6 months).

Last sunday my girlfriend and her daughter was Baptised,the sermon before that spoke on how each one of us can serve in a different manner,he did say sin and spoke of salvation,but in the message i kept hearing the word Love over and over,while there is nothing wrong with love,people do not know boundries,that is why there is disrespect in the church,such as wearing shorts ,tank tops,country music t-shirts,bringing soda,drinking coffee and donuts,all during a service.
This was never thought of when i was younger. Man have things changed.

It is all about preachers not wanting to offend people. Funny,i never felt offended when a real sermon was preached on sin or prophecy. Why did God put it in there if it wasn't to be taught. Do christians see the signs of the second coming?or do they even know what sin is? the secular world tells them,but, our preachers won't.

Where is the breaking point of compromising your beliefs and being so open minided that you don't know what you believe.

The Devil,Ruler of this world and the Author of confusion.

Amen to all you said, joshjefflawn.

I don't care what anyone says from Baptist Board or any other board. The King James Bible is the PERFECT word of God and the new versions belong in the hottest place in Hell! The problem people have is that they don't put God's word on high and when they see us stand up for the King James Bible, they think we worship it.

Psalms 138:2 "I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name."

Then again, if you showed them that verse, I doubt they would believe it. They would probably have to go to the "originals"(there are none) to find the "true meaning".

You know, If I had to go to the Greek and hebrew to know what God said, I sure would be in a flat footed mess. I know of a guy who is going to marry my sister, hes suppossed to be saved, and hes now an ordained Pastor (you know, it seems like they ordain just about anybody) But the Guy doesn't even believe that the Originals were inspired. "The gospels were not supposed to be written, but because of a lack of faith from the apostles, they wrote what they saw/ therefore having a written testimonial concerning the Christ."
He is now gonna be going to a Emmanualle school of Religion (sounds bunk to me, I could be wrong though) and hes going to get his PHD (piled hire and deeper).
The Lord led me to this verse the other day, "ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." Tim 3:7
All I know is that my church, Cornerstone Baptist Church strives to resemble the Philidelphian as much as possible.
By Gods grace we shall stand for his word, and fight the Good fight till his comming, even if it should cost us our lives. "For me to live is Christ, and to die is gain" Phil 1:21

I really feel you brother. Know that your pain is my pain. We are one body in Christ Jesus, Hallelujah! It is no small fact that the Church today completely lacks discernment, and that we should not be suprised by the grief we experience when we try to share some Truth with others.

Ecclesiastes 1:17-18 "And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit. For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow."

But as I read these words the other day and wondered now what, the Holy Spirit told me to read the end of the book (funny how this works sometimes, praise King Jesus!).

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil."

I've really been fortunate lately as I seek ways to follow my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. I've seen so many so called Christians around me claiming Jesus as their Saviour when Helel is their Lord, which is the most burdensome thing I personally carry. But as for myself, the verse that continually comes to mind as I'm pondering my love relationship with Christ Jesus and my Father Jehovah God:

John 8:29 "And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him."

I know that God has sealed me with His Holy Ghost, therefore I am not alone (neither are you my brother) and that it is such a joy to do those things that please Jehovah God, Amen!

So just keep this in your mind when you speak to people about the Word of God, that it is God you're aiming to please. Truly His smile is the brightest jewel in heaven!

for Jesus' sake,
Stephen

...I do send thee unto them; and thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD. And thou, son of man, be not afraid of them, neither be afraid of their words, though briers and thorns be with thee, and thou dost dwell among scorpions: be not afraid of their words, nor be dismayed at their looks, though they be a rebellious house. Ezekiel 2:4, 6

I REALLY do not like the BaptistBoard.. It seems to me the main reason many rely on the Greek and Hebrew is to lift themselves above the Book. Then the only way to truly know what God has said is to go to them and NOT the King James Bible.

You'll love BaptistLife.com then! They let the universalists fellowship with everyone, and all get along, but if you mention the KJB, you'll get mocked.

Ok, forgive my ignorance please. If there are no "originals" where did the KJV get its translation from? And it seems to me (outsider looking in, but looking for the truth) that you use the same argument for the KJV. You say nothing is valid unless it comes from the KJV. But that can not be because there had to be the "perfect inspired Word of god" before the KJV to translate it into the KJV, right? So are you saying the Greek and latin translations are imperfect? If that is the case, then how can the KJV be "perfect" if there are no "originals" to compare it to?

The more I read on here, the less I understand. I guess I will stick to reading my Bible (KJV/NIV parallel btw) and find my own answers as it looks like none of my posts will get to see the actual boards. :(

There are many learned brothers on the subject who I am sure in due time will answer your question on the originals. To start of though, may I say that God inspired the prophet Jeremiah to write what he told him, then the "Original" was destroyed by the King by Fire, God then told Jeremiah to re-write the original so essentially this was a "copy", yet also "inspired".
There really is a lot to take into consideration on the subject like the history of the origins on the text, the history of the translations and the translators, all of which pointed me in the direction of the truth, that modern "versions" are made to appease those who disagree with God's word and don't want to have to look at a Bible that glaringly tells them so everyday.
May I ask you this, Do you believe that the Bible should have contradictions ?

rbratt,
If you are sincerely seeking truth about the KJB over modern versions, then you will do two things:
1 ) For your concerns about variations, continue reading your Bible, noting especially the places where the NIV differs from the KJB in meaning or by omission, and ask yourself why.
2 ) For your concerns about the history behind the KJB, read a good book that covers this topic. Here is an excellent book to start. http://av1611.com/kjbp/books/review-cwg.html

The "original" or first manuscripts [called the Traditional or Majority text] were passed around and worn-out beyond recognition. There are no original copies.

However, original copies of the "Alexandrian manuscripts" [man's attempt to improve on the originals] were found because the early church rejected them. Original copies of this corrupted work were found because they set on a shelf, unread, and rejected by the born-again believers. The "Traditional or Majority Text", on the other hand, were received by the true believers. Copies, of copies, of copies, of copies were made because believers were hungry for the Word of God.

But didn't men make mistakes when they copied the originals and then recopied them again and again? This is where we must believe, and accept, the power and sovereignty of God, the Almighty. The issue is one of preservation. Is God able to preserve His Written Word of Truth?

“The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever” (Psalm 12:6–7).

“For ever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven” (Psalm 119:89).

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away” (Matthew 24:35; Mark 13:31; Luke 21:33).

“The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever” (Isaiah 40:8).

How can we ever proclaim and teach the true meaning of Scripture without first believing God has preserved every Word?

Personally I don't think the Bible contradicts itself. It seems to me that if you read the context and get the full meaning that it becomes clear what was stated. ??

Certain members of this community have already basically called me the Devil because I have real questions and am not afraid to ask them here.

My problems and concerns are valid FOR ME, and is why I am here asking. I don't think I have said anything derogatory about the KJV of the Bible. And you won't unless I really mis-word something badly.

Ok, there is a good starting point. What is the true menaing of the Scripture? The message of salvation, right? So what difference does it make if I think Jonas was swallowed by a whale or a fish? I believe he was swallowed, and in the belly for three days. I believe God accomplished His works the way he said. Lets start with this and I will try to go from there. Maybe I started out with too many questions at first. This seems to be the heart of the matter for me.

I'm using the word Scripture to include all Scripture. "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him" (Proverbs 30:5).

In my opinion, the message of Jesus Christ is the central theme of the Bible. Redemption and salvation for all who believe, and a clear declaration of Jesus Christ's preeminence in all things. In other words, it begins, continues, and ends with Jesus Christ. Not just initial salvation, but the entire Christian life.

At this point, I really want to encourage you to, with open heart and mind, search out some of the subtle differences between the KJV and other versions and allow God the Holy Spirit to persuade you. I know He will as you continue to seek the truth. God will show you the truth in this matter.

A good start is:

http://av1611.com/kjbp/charts/various.html

http://av1611.com/kjbp/faq.html

I'm not trying to avoid ongoing conversation and study. I know there are better and more adequate resources to help you resolve this issue, than me.

By the way...

"Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights" (Jonah 1:17).

"For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth" (Matthew 12:40).

It is important and matters because God said it.

[QUOTE]No one is going to tell you; go find out yourself unless you think we all just are lying to you, then do what ever you want, what can we do if you don't care to find it out. :)

PS King James Only people know; that is why it is so hard for you to kick against the pricks.

I understand your point here. But does it say "God said 'I prepared a whale' or is the writer of the book saying 'God prepared a whale'. That is whate matters in my opinion. The message is the same God prepared a place for Jonas.

I will continue to study. I am at work in Chicago at them moment and may have to go buy a KJV since I had counted on using the ones in the Hotel rooms but they are NKJV and since being here I don't want to use those.

And thank you for the replies, I appreciate an honest answer from people who are trying to help.

[quote=Scott Simons;7330]
Its not that I think you are lying. Maybe its my understanding of Jesus Christ as the Word of God and not a printed document that is the problem?

By the way, this has been an issue for me for a long time. My family just said "we don't know the answer, it's just what we believe" and that is why I came here.

No, it says God prepared a great fish, which by comparing Scripture with Scripture, we understand was a whale.

We are all growing, brother.

rbratt,

If you can not believe in the inspirition of Scripture, many of The truths written in the KVB will never be revealed to you. I believe there is only one BIBLE, the others are only versions that contain God's words. I will not belabor this point as my belief is very simple in this matter. Since I came to believe in the Inspired Book, my heavenly Father has been able to keep this faith that He gives me, and teaches me daily from it.

If you have not read this post, it might be good for you to do so:

Bible Versions George #1 by S M Rajh on "The Inspiration of Scripture".

You may be pleasently surprised how the book opens up to you when you believe it. Of course like all of us some things remain a mystery, because God is not ready to reveal it to us yet.

Aloha,
Renee

Rbratt,

The Word of God is a person, and the word of God is written scriptures. the one is a person of the Godhead the other is the scriptures to gives us light in this world during the absence of Jesus Christ. 1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. King James Version is one of the only two versions that carries this verse, the newer NKJV now has that verse in place. Also he gives every believer the Holy Ghost, another person of the Godhead, to help them learn the scriptures John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. If Scriptures are difficult to understand it could be your flesh, the world, the Devil, or you are not a true beleiver and have not been given the Holy Ghost. Iam not saying you are not a true beleiver. But sometimes people have beleived the wrong thing or did some form of work and therefore don't have the Holy Ghost because he is only given to those whom have beleived on Christ by Grace through faith apart from any works. Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Scriptures are written manuscripts placed into one volume we know as the Holy Bible sometimes refered to as His word, Gods word and the word and others forms of these. these scriptres are not the originals by any stretch. No one in our day as far back as the year 300 has ever seen an original New Testament document, and no one as far back as Judges ever saw an original Old Testament. all they had and all we have are are copies and fragments of copies.

we beleive however that God being true to his word will preserve all his word in its entirety. that is all his promises to judge the wicked, bless the righteous and give us life and blessing in Christ Jesus. Jeremiah 36:23 And it came to pass, that when Jehudi had read three or four leaves, he cut it with the penknife, and cast it into the fire that was on the hearth, until all the roll was consumed in the fire that was on the hearth. Here we have a man cutting out a pages from a Bible most likely a copy and burning them. but we still have that pages in our Bibles today. this was done by God in some way preserving the scriputres so that our Bibles are complete and whole.

the only book that has not had scriptures changed, added or removed. the only Holy Bible that has faithfully translated and transliterated when necessary, the only Holy Bible that has been honest enough to show us where words were added so the translation would be clear. Is the King James Authorized Version of 1611 and it's edited versions that followed.

I am not a versed on the subject but George is and on his site www.thywordistruthkjv.com i think that's the name, he has some information on the scriptures you can read.

Blessings.

Lo the volume of the book is written of me, that is the beauty that is being robbed from you.:(

My thoughts
 

When I looked through this topic, I wanted to share...
Isn't it amazing (at least for me) that movies that are Christian based, and when some of these actors lovingly hold the KJV in their hands, they trust it.

Isn't it amazing that I see that years and years ago, people trusted their Bible, and how over the years most people have changed to trusting the old manuscripts instead--a real change had taken place in the attitude? My eyes have really been opened. English reading folks have trusted the KJV for centuries.

And as the Bible says, look at the Fruit and test the spirits. I don't mean to twist the Scriptures, but it --- Hummm, it has got me to thinking...has anyone really researched the fruit and spirits of those that really trusted and lived by the King James Bible?

I would venture to guess that it produced a lot of good fruit.

Hummm, I need to check into this.

Aloha Doxa,

Your interest in the "fruit" of the King James Bible is a sure sign that you are sincerely wanting to know "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth".

There are many books and biographies written about the men who were responsible for the greatest missionary period in church history (1700 - 1900 - Preachers: Whitfield, Wesley, Spurgeon, Moody, etc. / Missionaries: Goforth, Judson, Carey, Paton, etc.) Look up their names - there's plenty more.

Brother Peter Ruckman has written about many of these men in his two volume church history and in some of his other books.

Between 1700 - 1900 more souls were won to the Lord Jesus Christ than at any previous time in church history. Hundreds of Missionaries scattered throughout the world (enduring hardship, persecution, and even death) to spread the word of God and win people to Christ. And the interesting thing about this period of time? - They all used only ONE BIBLE, never "questioning" its accuracy or authority, just believing and obeying it. (A sharp contrast to today's Christians with their multiple "per-versions".

The issue is NOT the "message" of God; or just solely "the Gospel" (without any concern for ALL of God's words - A person can find the Gospel in a Chick Tract, but that doesn't make a salvation tract a "Bible"). The issue is simply - What is the Christian's FINAL AUTHORITY?

Do we look for God's Holy words amongst the thousands of manuscripts? Do we look for God's word amongst the nearly 200 English "versions" put out by Publishers since 1881? (Which begs the question - Why so many "bibles" in English only?) Do we (like all good Humanists) just decide, by "personal preference", which bible either "sounds" right; or "feels" right; or is "easier" to read; which "bible" we are going to accept as "our" bible?

Having spent thousands of hours studying this issue (beginning in 1968 up to the present) I can assure you of one thing, and that is, if you read church history (almost any church history) and the biographies of those past saints, you will see God's approval of, and His blessing the many missionaries that hazarded their lives for the word of God (when all they had was the HOLY BIBLE (later known as the "Authorized Version" and then still later - the "King James Bible").

The King James Bible "critics" have never been able to satisfactorily answer the question of WHY (if the King James Bible has so many supposed "errors" in it) did God so abundantly bless the "use" of it - like He has no other "bible" since?

Your on the "right track" - keep studying and searching. God will assuredly bless your efforts. :)

rbratt. I think it is in order that you get yourself a copy of at least a couple good books that really lay out the whole issue well. Depending on your desire to know the truth I'd either suggest either Dr. Thomas Hollands "Crowned With Glory" or Floyd Nolen Jones' "Which Version is the Bible". If you like the brutal truth, the kind that is likely to rub most folks the wrong way, then I'd also get "New Age Bible Versions" by Gail Riplinger (don't say I didn't warn you).


But in all honesty, nothing beats praying.

James 1:5-6 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

With a mind fully assured that God is in the business of answering prayers, ask the Lord to guide you into truth and understanding, and to give you His Wisdom on this issue. His Word is Truth, and He IS faithful to guide you to it and in it.

Mercy unto you, and peace and love, be multiplied,
Stephen

Dear George
 

Greetings George,
Why thank you so kindly for such a great message.
I totally agree with what you wrote.
I think it is awesome what God divinely orchestrated regarding the protection and timing of His Word from handwritten to print and when and how, so that we might believe.
Thanks so much.
God bless you in Jesus' Name.