Daniel 12:4 Refrence to Revelation 22:10
 

Here is one to search out. The other day I was reading Revelation 22:10 and as I read it Daniel 12:4 come into memory. In Daniel 12:4 Daniel is told to " shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end:" But in Revelation 22:10, John is told to " Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand." One to really study for.

I think concerning the Jews, the book of Daniel is indeed a sealed book.

2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

Never thought of it that way. Seeing that the prophecy that was written in Daniel was concerning the Jews and that the book of Revelation started with the letters to the church.But one question still remains, once the time of the Gentiles be fullfilled then God will once again be dealing with the nation of Israel. Revelation speaks of what Daniel chapter 9 speaks of.

You mentioned one question - but nothing in your reply is stated as a question. I will confirm what you said though - Revelation 4:1 deals with the rapture of the true believers and chapter six is the start of the Tribulation period, where God turns back to the Jews.

First of all, don't we need to establish a date of this book?

Some say prior to 70AD. Others seem to think app. 96 AD.

Why is this so important? Well, if this book was wrote prior to 70 AD, then we can assume that John was referring to the destruction of Jerusalem.

Jerry, where do we read of a rapture in the book of Rev.?

In fact I can't seem to find any scripture that deals with rapture.

Also, I'm not aware of any Early Church Father, speaking on a rapture.

Yahweh Bless

Kevin

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is the clearest passage on the rapture. The term is not used in an English Bible, but "caught up together" is what rapture means. Revelation 1:19 states this:

Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

Chapter one describes what John saw (the vision of Christ).
Chapters 2-3 describe the things which are (the seven churches, and the church age which they picture).
Chapter four onward describes the things which shall be after the church age - ie. the rapture, the tribulation, new heavens and new earth, etc.

Laodicea is the last of the seven churches, then comes this passage, where John is caught up to Heaven (compare this passage and the wording used with 1 Thessalonians 4):

Revelation 4:1-2 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

A date has been established - it was AD 96 - during the reign of Domitian. The book does not refer to the destruction of Jerusalem (except in chapter 11), but is referring to destruction and judgment coming upon the whole earth. There is no way you can apply that only to the first century. Revelation chapters 6-19 are covering the same events as Matthew 24, Mark 13, 2 Thessalonians 2, Isaiah 24-25, Daniel 9:26-27. Luke 13 is the only chapter in the Bible that refers to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in AD 70.

I think some have missed the point. When we put on Christ we become heir to the promises of Abraham given to the Jews.

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

We become Abrahams seed. Could it be that those who are Abrahams seed and accept Jesus Christ are part of the lost tribes of Israel?

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Bro. Danny

The twelve tribes were never lost - they were carried to Assyria, then later Babylon - but the OT says many came back to Israel. Then the Jews were scattered in the second century by the Romans after the Bar Cochba (I might be off on my spelling) rebellion.

We are spiritually heirs of Abraham - we inherit his spiritual blessings and promises, not his physical ones. The literal Jews will inherit them when the Lord turns back to them.

This verse:

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

is referring to this scattering of believers during Saul's persecution of the early church:

Acts 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

Acts 8:4 Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.

The church up to that point in the book of Acts was mostly made up of Jews - safe to say, from the twelve tribes, which were then scattered abroad.

Jerry how in the world do you get rapture out of Rev. 1:19?

When I read Rev. I believe that John was a that point in time at the end of the tribualtion period.

Note what is wrote in 1:10, "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,"

The Lord's day. Many teach this has John being there on Sunday. I totally disgree with this. I believe the Lord's day is that day spoken by the Prophets.

Isa 2:12 For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:
Isa 2:13 And upon all the cedars of Lebanon, that are high and lifted up, and upon all the oaks of Bashan,

Isa 13:6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.

Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.


Eze 13:5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.

[footnote on this Chapter 13, read this whole Chapter and you will find out this Yahweh is mad at those that teach the souls to fly away!]

Joe 1:15 Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.

Oba 1:15 For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.

I believe I made my point.

When John was in that time period of Yahweh, beginning to pour out His wrath upon the world, he was instructed to write those things before this wrath of Yahweh, the things that were beginning to happen in that day of judgment, and those things after the day of Yahweh's wrath.

Yahweh Bless

Kevin

I did not say the rapture was in Revelation 1:19 - obviously your reading skills are lacking. That verse gives the breakdown of the book of Revelation. I said the third thing mentioned is what happens from 4:1 on - the things which shall be hereafter.

The tribulation period has not happened yet - it did not happen at the end of the first century, no matter how much you want to spiritualize things. There has never been a one world ruler yet, a one world religion, the mark of the beast, the seven year tribulation.

P.S. I don't believe in Yahweh, which is a pagan god.

Bro: Jerry do you have any referance to back up the nonsense that you present as fact about the lost tribes of Israel. Do you just say whatever pops into your head. Don't you know you will be held accountable for teaching these things. How about some facts with referances.

Thanks Bro. Danny

Bro. Jerry

Again you are just making up incorrect statements. Jew refers only to one tribe and that is the tribe of Judah. So it is not safe to say what you say. Please study the matter some before posting incorrect information.

Bro. Danny

Jews today refer to the nation of Israel - Jews in Bible times also referred to Israel. The Bible does not make the distinction you are trying to make.

What's with the hostility? Not enough caffeine this evening?

Bro. Jerry that has nothing to do with outlandish statements you made in your previous post that simply are not so. You seem to not be able to keep cohesion in your thinking and stay on point. No Caffeine no hostility, just no tolerance for ignorant statements and lack of respect for elders in the church.

Bro Danny

According to my recollection all the promises given Abraham were physical. That would me we are heirs to physical promises.

Jewish Disapora

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/.../Diaspora.html

Just because you disagree with me on doctrine doesn't make me ignorant.

I am not a member of your church - so whether you are some kind of pastor (if that is the sense you are using elder in) or not does not matter to me. This is a public message board, not a church, so you have no spiritual authority over anyone here whatsoever - and all that you say (as all that anyone here says) should be opened to be critiqued in the light of God's Word.

If you are using elder in the sense of an older, supposedly wiser Christian - you have no idea how old I am, so your statement is moot. Does what you say line up with the Word of God or not, that is what matters.

That is not what the Bible says. You are not Israel, nor a physical descendant of Abraham. What promises are ours to claim? Spiritual ones, not physical ones:

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

2 Peter 1:3-4 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Hm, links to cult theology. For those who are interested, do research on how seriously off on doctrine the Shepherd Chapel is.

The doctrine that Christians today somehow are the lost tribes of Israel is called Anglo-Israelism, and is pure cultic nonsense. It is not Bible, and is false teaching. Some of the proponents of this doctrine are Herbert Armstrong and his Worldwide Church of God. We also see this junk promoted by Dan Brown, who wrote the book the Davinci Code to promote this and other false doctrines and to undermine the Bible and true Christianity.

Bro. Jerry

You are some piece of work brother. I will pray that you recieve some Godly, Holy Ghost anger management.

It is not what you know that hurts you, it is what you think you know that just ain't so.

Bro. Danny

I am not angry at all - but I am sure we could all use one another's prayers, especially in the area of discernment. Thanks.

Here is an article exposing some of the beliefs of Shepherd's Chapel - which was linked to earlier in this thread in support of the Lost Tribes heresy:

http://www.letusreason.org/Poptea4.htm

I read through this thread and I'm pretty sure I agree with you on the points you are making. although, I was confused by this statement
Isn't Yahweh an alternate spelling of Jehovah?

A name of God used in the O.T.

No, Yahweh is a name created by higher critics, using a critical text without vowels - so they supplied their own and came up with that name. However, there is a lot of proof that the vowels were never lost, but were always a part of the preserved text. And Jehovah is the name that we find there.

I guess the information I found in my Swordsearcher software is wrong then?

It depends on what module says what. Brandon specifies very clearly on his Swordsearcher website that he does not endorse or agree with every statement made in these commentaries, books, etc. - but has included them as tools, to be used discerningly and comparing what they say with the Bible itself.

American Tract Society Dictionary says this: In the Hebrew Bible, it is always written with the vowels of one or the other of these words. Its ancient pronunciation is by many thought to have been Yahweh, but this is not certain.

From a quick search for entries for Yahweh, I do not see any of them that give a history of this name - I see some commentators with a preference or liking for it - but that in itself neither proves or disproves it.

Actually, from what I recall, Brandon already posted a link showing where the name came from earlier in this thread. You may profit from reading through it.

Does Brandon agree with this?

I would certainly profit from a resource that backs up that statement.

I purchased the Way of Life Encyclopedia along with SS. Do you disagree with David Cloud on this?

Any way I certainly have never read anything about Yahweh being a pagan god, but if you have anything on that I would be interested in reading it.

I found this also

Brandon posted a link in another thread. Here it is as well:

http://av1611.com/kjbp/ridiculous-kj...hova-YHVH.html

Some people do think it is an alternate spelling of Jehovah - I do not believe it is; therefore I think they are wrong on that particular point. Please read the article, as you will find it informative.

That does look like an interesting article. I thought I could read through it quick and reply, although it looks like I need to print it out to read later. I have never heard of this as an issue and that is why I originally asked the question. I skimmed through and didn't see where it said that Yahweh was a pagan god, but I may need to look at it more closely tonight.

Thanks for posting the article.

I wanted to see if Cloud had articles with more of an explanation. I found a couple. Will read these along with the one Jerry posted.

http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/whois-yahweh.html

Here is a portion of another article

I am not sure exactly what you meant by "this." The statement that "he does not endorse or agree with every statement made in these commentaries, books, etc." is accurate.

As for the name Yahweh, I do believe it is a pronunciation based on a faulty premise. But what I object to is people insisting that Jehovah is a corruption of God's true name. If anything fits that bill, it's Yahweh, not Jehovah.

Does Brandon agree with this?

I was only questioning this statement made by Jerry.

Ah.

I'm not sure I'd use the term "pagan god" since I am unaware of there being a culture in history that has worshiped a false god named "Yahweh," but if I understand Jerry correctly, he means that "Yahweh" is an invention of scholars based on false premises and is therefor a false god. I agree that the name is an invention, not a restoration, and someone who assigns the name "Yahweh" to God and then assumes others who do not do so are not worshiping God are indeed creating a pagan idol.

However, I am aware many Christians, in error, believe that Yahweh is the "correct" pronunciation of YHVH. I don't think they are worshiping a pagan god, but they are in error. The proper name is as it is given in our Bible: Jehovah.

Yes, Brandon, I realize many Christians use that name ignorantly - but because I know that is not His name historically, I refuse to use it. I think I read somewhere that it was originally the name of a pagan god, but perhaps I may have mixed something up in my research (it has been awhile), and if so, I am sorry. I agree with you that Jehovah is the name of God that we find preserved in our KJV and in the Hebrew Masoretic text.

Actually, John Hinton does cover some of the claims that Yahweh was a pagan storm god in his article above, in the section: Yahweh the Storm God.

Aha. I don't know how I missed that reference when I last skimmed the article. It must have skipped my mind since I read it in its entirety.

And doing a search for Yahweh storm god on Google brings up some good hits. Worthy of further study.

Seems like a lot of people are unaware of the problems with using "Yahweh." I've been reading Kerby Fannin's book While Men Slept... A Biblical and Historical Account of the New Universal Christianity and he uses "Yahweh" repeatedly, apparently ignorant of the false premise the pronunciation is based on.

Thanks Jerry and Brandon. I have definitely learned a bunch on this topic. What you are saying is starting to make some sense to me.

Thanks Beth for those links. I am still reading through the second article, but have been blessed by the points that have been brought up so far.