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  #21  
Old 11-10-2008, 06:33 PM
aussiemama
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Dr Ruckman's book is awesome and the best book I've seen on the topic yet.

The following is my understanding of the topic Biblically so far:

If we read Genesis 9, we see that God told Noah’s sons to be fruitful and replenish the earth. God made a distinct separation between Noah’s three sons Shem, Ham and Japheth. He gave different blessings and curses to each son.

Genesis 9 has where Ham committed a homosexual act with his father when his father was drunk. God cursed Ham and his descendants for this. Ham’s descendants were to be servants. Ham is the father of the black races.

We also see in this chapter that Shem (who is the father of the orientals and Jews) was blessed with spiritual discernment. Oriental people are the most spiritually minded people (even though their spirituality is most times wasted on the wrong god).

Japheth was the father of the white races, the Europeans. He was blessed with being the explorer type. It’s been the Europeans that have gone to other lands as explorers even in fairly recent history.

Then comes the tower of Babel, where in judgment of sin, God causes groups of people to speak different languages. The people then went their separate ways.

In Genesis 10 we are told of the dividing of the earth in the days of Peleg. The earth used to be one land mass until the earth was divided into continents.

Acts 17:26 mentions that there are bounds to our habitation.

All throughout the Bible there is warnings not to marry different races.

And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation. Acts 17:26.

God has made us all one blood, which simply means that we are all humans. However, it was God that allowed our differences racially. God is a "racist" God to some people...just think of it...His chosen people are the Jews! Not everyone, everywhere, but just the Jews. A lot of people would say this is unfair, but God can do whatever He likes and it is fair. Just because we are all humans does not mean that we are all the same. This verse tells us that God has given us boundaries of where we live. That means that a certain race of people is to live somewhere, and other races somewhere else. If you don't believe me, think about the Tower of Babel. God purposely split different people into different language groups and made it so they had to move somewhere else. Races are a result of SIN!

And the LORD said, behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. God to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.
Genesis 11:5-9.

The earth used to be one big land mass, until the days of Peleg. So, not only did God choose to confound languages, and to scatter people over the earth, He then chose to divide the land mass into seven smaller land masses (plus islands).

And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan. Genesis 10:25. So, right from the first book of the Bible, we see that God intended, because of sin, that humans be divided. I know that goes against modern-day thinking, but then again, most of the Bible does.

As Christians, we are to obey the Bible, not to be politically correct. The whole "intergration" movement is, in my opinion, part of the politically correct agenda that we as Christians need to stay away from. I will post about why our family believes interracial marriage to be wrong. (As a side note, last time I said anything about this I got a heap of junk from Ken Ham sent to me...I am not interested in what Ken Ham has to say...he doesn't even believe the King James Bible for starters. If you can refute what I say that's fine, I'm just not interested in what he has to say anymore because I think I've been sent it so many times I have almost memorized it haha).

Hope this helps explain my beliefs a little. By the way, I know many black friends who believe it is wrong for them to marry white people or orientals, and nobody calls them racist. It's only racist if a white person says it, as usual in this world.
  #22  
Old 11-10-2008, 07:42 PM
Vendetta Ride
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I think it's a very tricky subject, and you're opening an enormous can of worms!

My basic answer: it's not unscriptural or sinful, but it's unwise.

Beyond that, it's between the people and God. If Christians are involved, they need great wisdom and "a multitude of counsellors." It's very, very difficult.


Why do you bring up these things? Are you just asking for a smackdown? Holy cow, Mama, I can't defend you all the time!

  #23  
Old 11-10-2008, 07:55 PM
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Default Re: "Interracial Marriage"

"All throughout the Bible there is warnings not to marry different races."

Aloha Aussiemama,

Please give us the Chapters and verses, because this is one area (amongst others) where I am in disagreement with brother Ruckman.
  #24  
Old 11-10-2008, 07:59 PM
Vendetta Ride
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Aussiemama! I beg your pardon. I saw your name and thought that you'd started the thread. I often make that mistake.

My mind is not what it once was....
  #25  
Old 11-10-2008, 08:29 PM
aussiemama
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LOL no I would not have started this topic. I only added to it. I wanted to make one good post on the subject and then leave it alone because I figured I would be outnumbered but that doesn't change what I believe. Since I am outnumbered and it's sensitive, though, I only really wanted to make one post. I also did not intend to stir the pot which is why I wanted to have it all collected in one post so that I did not appear to be arguing. I just wanted to present another viewpoint. I don't plan on saying much more on the subject. I won't promise that it and this will be my only posts because the minute I do that something will happen and I'll add to it lol.
  #26  
Old 11-11-2008, 06:03 AM
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A few things I wanted to point out:

1) Noah cursed Canaan, not Ham. Also there is no proof that Ham actually sodomized his father; all it says is that he looked upon him.

2) There is little to no evidence for "Pangea" or the supercontinent alluded to previously. Like Kent Hovind says: "If you take the water out of the oceans, you'll notice there's 'dirt' underneath. We're not just lily pads floatin' around here, folks!" The combination of Peleg and Joktan (division, shortened lifespans) points to a melting of the ice caps ("Ice Age," very short, post-flood) within a few hundred years of the flood. If the ocean levels were to be lowered by a few hundred feet, all the earth's landmasses would be connected by land bridges. Therefore it is more sensible to assume that the division spoken of here is the rising of the oceans that separated the continents.

3) God established the boundaries of the nations for specific reasons. Some had to do with prophecy (Gen. 9:27 for instance), and I believe He wanted to sequester some away from the rest for His own good reasons. According to the Scriptures, God designed the habitations of the different nations to keep them apart: He intended for distance and geographical features to inhibit intermingling, but largely (if not solely) for the purpose of keeping His chosen people holy before Him.

The main reason that God was against inter-"racial" marriage was because He knew the heathen would lead His people astray. Today, the largest problem with intercultural marriage is cultural differences, not Scriptural commands. There are going to be issues when getting involved with other backgrounds and cultures, so one must be aware of that when looking for a mate.

Overall, there is no clear-cut command to not marry outside one's "race." God created one race: the human race.
  #27  
Old 11-11-2008, 06:37 AM
aussiemama
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I will add one more thing...I don't know how interracial couples manage...my husband and I are in a cross cultural marriage (both European) and even that is hard enough!
  #28  
Old 11-11-2008, 10:03 AM
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Aussiemama, if the information that you gave comes from Dr. Ruckman's book, then he has another strike against him in my book. (That makes 2 and 1/2 strikes).

NO proof of a homosexual act.

Canaan was cursed, not Ham. Canaanites are not black.

Nowhere in the Bible is there a universal command not to marry outside one's culture or nationality. The Hebrew nation was under restriction, but other nations were not. Therefore, it does not apply to Gentiles, including Christians. If there were any such restriction, it would have been repeated in the NT, particularly since there was clear evidence of intermarrying between nationalities within the church.

Segregation is a vile belief, and those who encourage it are blind at best, and wicked at worst.
  #29  
Old 11-11-2008, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Tim View Post
Aussiemama, if the information that you gave comes from Dr. Ruckman's book, then he has another strike against him in my book. (That makes 2 and 1/2 strikes).

NO proof of a homosexual act.

Canaan was cursed, not Ham. Canaanites are not black.

Nowhere in the Bible is there a universal command not to marry outside one's culture or nationality. The Hebrew nation was under restriction, but other nations were not. Therefore, it does not apply to Gentiles, including Christians. If there were any such restriction, it would have been repeated in the NT, particularly since there was clear evidence of intermarrying between nationalities within the church.

Segregation is a vile belief, and those who encourage it are blind at best, and wicked at worst.
Bro. Tim, Doc teaches on these things, and he does believe Ham sodomized Noah, but you can be assured everything that he says in his book is his belief backed up with Scripture. Many times people get all bent out of shape because of something Doc supposedly teaches, when it's usually just something he believes and writes about as such in a "take-it-or-leave-it" manner.

Not everything people say about Doc is correct, even those who like or agree with him.
  #30  
Old 11-11-2008, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MC1171611 View Post
A few things I wanted to point out:

1) Noah cursed Canaan, not Ham. Also there is no proof that Ham actually sodomized his father; all it says is that he looked upon him.
Well, that's not ALL it says:

Genesis 9:20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard: 21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. 22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without. 23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness. 24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. 25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

Noah got drunk and naked, Ham saw his father's nakedness, when Noah awoke he knew what Ham "HAD DONE UNTO HIM". Ham DID something to Noah, this strongly implies an act, which is more than a 'look'. If Ham only looked at him then how did Noah know it when he awoke?

An act of fornication is the likely conclusion (we are Bible believers so I need not run the references connecting drunkeness, nakedness and fornication), what are the other alternatives and explanations?
 

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