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  #1  
Old 03-15-2009, 09:20 AM
CKG CKG is offline
 
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Default What are the tabrets and pipes of Ezekiel 28?

Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. (Ezekiel 28:13-14)
Some commentators say the tabrets and pipes are "the sockets and grooves used as the settings for the precious stones", but most every other place these words are used in the Bible they are referring to musical instruments.

Tabret
Genesis 31:27
1 Samuel 10:5
1 Samuel 18:6
Job 17:6
Isaiah 5:12
Isaiah 24:8
Isaiah 30:32
Jeremiah 31:4
Ezekiel 28:13

Pipes
1 Samuel 10:5
1 Kings 1:40
Isaiah 5:12
Isaiah 30:29
Jeremiah 48:36
Ezekiel 28:13
Matthew 11:17
Luke 7:32
1 Corinthians 14:7
Revelation 18:22

The exception with the pipes would be two verses in Zechariah which talk about the lamp stand.
Zechariah 4:2
Zechariah 4:12
  #2  
Old 03-15-2009, 09:41 AM
peopleoftheway peopleoftheway is offline
 
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Hi there Brother
The tabrets and pipes in Ezekiel 28:13-14 Refers to musical instruments, satan was created for worship and certainly has musical abilities, refer to the scriptures to back this up
Isaiah14:11-12
"Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols [stringed instruments]: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

We only have to look around us at the music industry and its "Rock and Pop stars" to see how much of an influence satan has on music and its corruption, it is most certainly one of the devils strongest tools to corrupt the Word of God and influence the lost away from Godliness and to place strongholds on them via music.
  #3  
Old 03-15-2009, 06:17 PM
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Luke Luke is offline
 
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It also sounds as though Lucifer was created as an organic organ. A living musical instrument. The tabrets and pipes were IN him.

When he fell, perhaps his musical ability was disfigured and hindered, and that is why we have rock and roll and heavy metal and rap music, because it is the sounds that the devil produces from his corrupted body.
  #4  
Old 03-15-2009, 07:15 PM
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Kiwi Christian Kiwi Christian is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke View Post
It also sounds as though Lucifer was created as an organic organ. A living musical instrument. The tabrets and pipes were IN him.
That's right, man has only one windpipe, Lucifer had multiple "pipes" created in him, as well as multiple tabrets (small drums/timbrels).

He could well have been the song leader/maker for the "sons of God" choir before man was put on this earth. See Job 1:6; 38:7.
  #5  
Old 03-15-2009, 09:54 PM
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chette777 chette777 is offline
 
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from the loins of Cain comes the first to make musical instruments. Gen 4:21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
  #6  
Old 04-04-2009, 01:48 AM
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geologist geologist is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peopleoftheway View Post
We only have to look around us at the music industry and its "Rock and Pop stars" to see how much of an influence satan has on music and its corruption, it is most certainly one of the devils strongest tools to corrupt the Word of God and influence the lost away from Godliness and to place strongholds on them via music.
Music is the universal language of emotion. A piece of music that stirs up the emotion of suspense or fear in an English speaker will have the same effect on non-English speakers. That is why, when a movie is dubbed into several different languages, the movie's musical score does not need to be changed to be just as effective.

Of course, the music business is big $$$ and the prices the lawyers charge for use rights are obscene. You are absolutely right; the world system uses music to corrupt and gain riches. Too bad, since music is really a good thing and was originally created for the worship and praise of God.
  #7  
Old 04-04-2009, 03:05 AM
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chette777 chette777 is offline
 
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Remember it is men who attribute the design of Lucifer to music. There is absolutely no Biblical grounds that Lucifer was a heavenly worship leader. the reason the purpose was not mentioned in scriptures is because at no time during this current 24/7TQ did Lucifer lead worship in heaven. We know that the morning stars sang together of which Lucifer would have been one of them and we know he made noise of viols in Isaiah.

the description in Ezekiel is given to show how beautiful and perfect he was until Iniquity was found in him not to describe his past position as a music player. Some of you would judge me for my claims from silence of scriptures then you do the same with these scriptures.

If Lucifer ever did lead worship in heaven is was before the current 24/7TQ not afterwards.
  #8  
Old 04-04-2009, 05:33 AM
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Kiwi Christian Kiwi Christian is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chette777 View Post
Remember it is men who attribute the design of Lucifer to music.
No, I think Ezekiel 28:13 is fairly clear that God created him with organs (plural) within him capable of making music:

Ezekiel 28:13b ...the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Tabrets and pipes are associated with other instruments in scripture, and with song:

Isaiah 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD, neither consider the operation of his hands.

Genesis 31:27 Wherefore didst thou flee away secretly, and steal away from me; and didst not tell me, that I might have sent thee away with mirth, and with songs, with tabret, and with harp?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chette777 View Post
There is absolutely no Biblical grounds that Lucifer was a heavenly worship leader.
The Biblical grounds have already been posted. If Satan, who is called the "son of the morning" in Isaiah 14:12, was among the "morning" stars singing and sons of God shouting for joy in Job 38:7, then why wouldn't he be leading them, considering his musical abilities and authoritative position revealed throughout the scriptures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chette777 View Post
...the reason the purpose was not mentioned in scriptures is because at no time during this current 24/7TQ did Lucifer lead worship in heaven.
Huh? How does that relate to the OP?
  #9  
Old 04-04-2009, 08:58 AM
Winman Winman is offline
 
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You are something else Chette, you told me to "take a hike" because I disagreed with your Gap Theory (and still do) in your " The Non-Evolutionary Gap Theory" thread, but you try to introduce it in many threads.

These very verses in Ezekiel contradict your theory if you will notice:

Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.


What is the first thing God tells us here? He tells us that Satan or Lucifer "hast been" (past tense) in Eden, the garden of God.

Now, according to your theory, Satan fell between Gen 1:1 and 1:2. But we know the Garden of Eden was not created until at least the third day when God made the dry land appear, and then caused the earth to bring forth grass, herb yielding seed, and trees yielding fruit.

I think even you would agree that a garden should contain plants.

Then God tells us that Satan or Lucifer was perfect in his ways from the day he was created UNTIL iniquity was found in him.

This contradicts your Gap Theory completely. However, for those of us who believe Satan fell sometime after the 6 day creation (plus the 7th day God rested), there is no contradiction whatsoever. I believe Satan could have been in the Garden of Eden for as long as 100 years before he deceived Eve. That is just a rough estimate based on the births of Cain and Abel, Cain murdering Abel when they were adults (they both had livlihoods) and then Seth being conceived and born after Abel's death when Adam (and Eve) were 130 years old (Gen 5:3)

So, approximately 100 years were available, but Satan could have rebelled anytime after Day 7 until Cain was conceived (after Adam and Eve's fall).

But, back to the subject, I have read these verses before and was amazed to read Satan was covered with these stones, the fact he was also covered with musical instruments escaped me. He must be an extraodinary looking creature.

Five of the stones mentioned are also mentioned in the gates of the New Jerusalem in Rev. 21. Little side-track here, but here is a site that shows the 12 stones mentioned in Rev. 21.

http://www.rivercitylures.50megs.com/njd/ston/ston.htm

I agree with the others, while we cannot know for sure he led the heavenly choir, there is certainly the great possibility that he did, seeing he was "prepared" with these instruments, and his position as one of the highest angels (Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth).

Last edited by Winman; 04-04-2009 at 09:23 AM.
  #10  
Old 04-04-2009, 06:41 PM
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I still have seen no PROOF from the Bible Lucifer ever was a musician, worship leader or anything else. Where are the scriptures to prove Lucifer's "musical abilities"? Isa 5:12 is a very poor text to use to prove anything about Lucifer being a musician seeing it speaks of Israel's rebellion to God. this is one of those places even if you put verses together you can't prove the point at hand.

you are all quick to defend a description interpreted by a man. But where are you Bible proofs that Lucifer ever played any music?

Pipes and Tabrets are also known as plumbing fixtures (pipes connected to valves with a small reservoir) he could be a beautiful walking oil lamp as far as those descriptions go.

Last edited by chette777; 04-04-2009 at 06:50 PM.
 

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