[Winman]

CKG

There is no verse that specifically says the church will be caught up prior to the 7 year tribulation period, but if you rightly divide scripture, understanding what scripture says about Israel and the church, you will conclude that the church will be caught up prior to the 7 year tribulation period.

There is no verse that says Lucifer = satan, but its hard to see who else Ezekiel and Isaiah are referring to plus I still say the fact that the modern versions omit Lucifer ought to raise a flag.

I agree with you 100%. I have a family member who does not believe in the Rapture, and argues the word Rapture is not found in the Bible. I have shown this person the many verses that do point to the Rapture.

And really, I also strongly tend to believe that Eze 28 and Isa 14 are indeed speaking of Satan for the very reasons you pointed out. And I tend to agree with those who think Satan had musical instruments as part of his being.

My argument with Chette and Fredoheaven is that if they read these passages clearly, they will see the prophesy of being cast down is future at the time these scriptures were written, so these passages cannot be speaking of Satan between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2

Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

It is pretty easy to see that if this is Satan, he was still in the mountain of God when this was written, and he was not yet destroyed as the covering cherub from the midst of the stones of fire. It is very simple and straightforward language and should be read as such.

Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Same rule applies here, the word "yet" and "shalt" point to the future, not the past or present. Simple.

I believe some would claim that Isa 14:12 shows Lucifer already cast down, using this to claim support for the gap theory. But I see this as a figure of speech, as when someone exclaims to another "You are finished now!" . We can even find expressions like this in the Bible as in Exodus.

Exo 12:33 And the Egyptians were urgent upon the people, that they might send them out of the land in haste; for they said, We be all dead men.

Now, were the men who said this actually dead? Of course not. They were speaking future. They were saying to each other that if we do not let the Isrealites go, that God was going to kill them all. This was said after the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Eygpt.

Chette and Fredoheaven accuse me of not rightly dividing the word, I say that they fail to understand relatively easy and straightforward scripture.

At the time Eze 28 and Isa 14 were written, neither the king of Tyrus nor the king of Babylon were either dead or cast down from their positions. I am not a historian, but I believe the king of Babylon had not even arisen yet when this prophesy was written of him. So both of these are prophesies of future events to come, not something past. And if you read carefully you will see they cannot support the gap theory either.