[George]

Re: “Who will be judged?”

Brother Forrest’s Quote:

“Also Brother George you've pointed out the difference between "believe" and "faith". What is the difference and practical application? Anyone can answer of course.”

Aloha brother Forrest,

Since I already covered this question extensively with a very dear brother - Sammy Tabuena from Iloilo, Philippines {“BibleStudent”} I thought I would post the answers I gave to him. {Alas, we “agreed to disagree”, but that’s our prerogative in the Liberty that Christ has given us. I still treasure his friendship and the fellowship that we have had -and still have.}

From AV1611 Forum > General Chit-Chat > “Dr. Ruckman” > Page 25 > Posts #245, 247, 250; Page 26 > Posts #254, 255; Page 27 > Post #261, 267;

Page 25 > My POST #245
Here is the Bible Definition of faith:

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

If the Lord Jesus Christ is ruling and reigning here on the earth in a physical, visible, earthly Kingdom - where does "faith" play a part? Where is the "hope" in "things not seen", if the Lord of Glory is dwelling on the earth? The people living on the earth during the Lord's reign are going to SEE him - "faith" is NOT involved if you can "see" the evidence!


Page 25 > My POST #247
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

I agree brother that Hebrews 11 (the whole chapter) is dealing with the "importance" of faith. But, before God explains the "importance" of faith - he gives us the "Definition" of it (Verse 1) so we will not think or believe it is anything other than what He has "defined". Practically speaking, the whole Chapter deals with the issue of "by faith" (15 Verses), or "through faith" (5 verses).

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

I have never seen God. I have never heard His audible voice. I have never seen Him perform miracles. And yet I believe He exists, yea and much more than that - I believe in Him and in His power to save; I believe in his Holy Word and in its power to change people's hearts and lives. I believe these things by "faith" - never having seen Him; heard Him; or seen Him perform miracles. "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." [Hebrews 11:1]

If we can see - where is the "faith"? A person can believe because they see something - but that is not faith - it's believing by sight. The "Jews require a sign" - most of the Jews needed to see in order to believe (Thomas). But we are "blessed" because we believe by faith and not by sight!

John 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Thomas "saw" and believed. We have not seen, and yet we believe (by "faith"). Thomas believed by sight - we believe by "faith". There is a huge difference - and that is why we are blessed!


Page 25 > My POST #250 (From a Post by “Connie” - later "banned")
Thomas may have lived by "faith" after the Lord ascended, but he believed because he saw the Lord Jesus Christ. He refused to have faith; he refused to believe until he could actually see the Lord. He was saved by seeing the Lord - we are saved by faith in the Lord (Whom we have not seen).

The definition of faith in Hebrews Chapter 11:1 is perfectly clear and without any ambiguity - there is no seeing in faith, it is based solely on that which cannot be seen with the eyes, but which is believed on in the heart.

PAGE 26 > My POST #254 (From a Post by “Connie” – later "banned" - abbreviated answer G.A.)
Thomas needed to see in order to believe You are reading into the Scripture your "private opinion". The Lord Jesus Christ rebukes Thomas for being "faithless" (John 20:27). He was not talking about a "lack" of faith - He was rebuking Thomas for having NO FAITH! He refused to believe the disciples words (the record - the words of God). In John 20:29 the Lord clearly states: ["because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are theythat have not seen, and yet have believed." ] Thomas refused to believe by "faith" - he insisted (required) on "seeing", and when he "saw" he believed. Those of us who have heard the word of God and believed have done so by "faith", without seeing. There is a difference - the Lord Jesus Christ said so! (John 20:29)

Thomas was "faithless" and refused to "believe" unless he could actually: "see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe." (John 20:25)
The Bible states quite clearly HOW faith comes and "SEEING" has NOTHING to do with it:

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

So then, Thomas refused to hear the words of God (the disciples' testimony), and in doing so he refused to believe (by "faith"). Instead he insisted on SEEING before he would BELIEVE - Again "FAITH" had nothing to do with his believing - IF "faith" cometh by hearing the word of God - which since the Scriptures declare it to be so - I accept the Bible record with no emendations, subtractions, or additions.

John 20:24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.


PAGE 26 > My POST #255 (In answer to: Biblestudent's Post - Post #252)
Aloha brother Sammy,

I'm not going to belabor the point nor am I going to go off in a huff because someone doesn't agree with me (after all I am fallible), however I will try to expound a bit more.

Your quote – Post #252:

“I think Hebrews 11:1 is just one of the definitions of faith. In fact, Hebrews 11 seems to emphasize the IMPORTANCE of faith rather than give the "only" definition of faith.”

Do you know of any other definitions of “faith” in the Scriptures?

To be honest, I haven't looked real hard in the Bible for other definitions of "faith" (there may be more). However, when I read the whole Chapter of Hebrews 11 - I have a slightly different "take" on it than you do.

In addition to emphasizing the “importance” of faith [Verse 6]; Hebrews 11:1 gives us the “definition” of “faith”; while the vast majority of Chapter 11 illustrates “HOW” faith works {i.e. by “faith"} or demonstrates “faith” in operation {i.e. through “faith”} - by giving us various examples of “faith”, (through the personal experiences of Old Testament saints) which I believe is the main purpose of the chapter.

So we have:
#1. The definition of “faith” {Verse 1)
#2. Illustrations or demonstrations of “faith” in operation. {Most of the Verses}
#3. The “importance” of “faith” {Verse 6)

At the beginning of the Chapter - (to insure that no one substitutes their “private opinion” or “private interpretation” of "faith"), God gives us His definition of “faith” – The same “faith” that is illustrated or demonstrated in the rest of the Chapter.

First of all, when it comes to the definition of words in the Bible that are of any spiritual significance or importance – I NEVER rely on Webster’s; Strong’s; Thayers; Kittel’s; or any other man to define God’s words. I always go to the “Source” – the Holy Scriptures - for God’s definition (comparing scripture with scripture – Isaiah 28:10&13).

Let’s “rightly divide the word of truth” – according to the testimony of God’s word:

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

“faith is the substance”
#1. So then: FAITH = a SUBSTANCE.

“faith is the substance of things hoped for”
#2. and: that SUBSTANCE = THINGS hoped for

“faith is the substance of things hoped for”
#3. then: those THINGS that are = HOPED FOR – are not tangible – they are “hoped” for!

“faith is the substance of things hoped for”, the evidence of things not seen.
#4. and: the SUBSTANCE of FAITH = EVIDENCE of things not seen

“faith is the substance of things hoped for”, the evidence of things not seen.
#5. and: the EVIDENCE of the SUBSTANCE of FAITH = THINGS not seen.

“faith is the substance of things hoped for”, the evidence of things not seen.
#6. and the EVIDENCE of the SUBSTANCE of FAITH = THINGS NOT SEEN!

So then we have: “FAITH is the SUBSTANCE of THINGS HOPED FOR, the EVIDENCE of THINGS NOT SEEN.”

You cannot taste, touch, feel, or SEE the THINGS (they are intangible) that make up the SUBSTANCE of "FAITH". You can, however, receive "FAITH" upon HEARING the word of God {and then "BELIEVING"}. As a matter of Scriptural fact this is the only way (today) that you can receive "FAITH"!

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

This is why the Holy Scriptures of Truth are so vitally important , because today in the United States they (the Scriptures) are not only being altered and changed by apostates; they are also being added to (the “traditions of men”) or being ignored by the so-called "Evangelicals" and “Fundamentalists”.

Hebrews 11:1 Now “faith” is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:2 For by “it” the elders obtained a good report.

So by “it” (faith) the elders (Old Testament saints) obtained a good report. [2Timothy 2:15]

Hebrews 11:3 Through “faith” we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Notice “things” again. There are “things” which are seen which are made of “things” you cannot see.

Hebrews 11:4 By “faith” Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

Hebrews 11:5 By “faith” Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Hebrews 11:6 But without “faith” it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

NOTICE: Here then is the “importance” of “faith” (for all of mankind - extremely important!).

Hebrews 11:7 By “faith” Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by “faith”.

NOTICE: The “things not seen” – again [Hebrews 11:1].

Hebrews 11:8 By “faith” Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.Hebrews 11:9 By “faith” he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.Hebrews 11:11 Through “faith” also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

Hebrews 11:13 These all died in “faith”, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

NOTICE: “having seen them afar off” – is in reference to the “promises” not things”.

Hebrews 11:17 By “faith” Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

Hebrews 11:20 By “faith” Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

NOTICE: Those “things” – again.

Hebrews 11:21 By “faith” Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.

Hebrews 11:22 By “faith” Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.

Hebrews 11:23 By “faith” Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.

Hebrews 11:24 By “faith” Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

Hebrews 11:27 By “faith” he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

NOTICE: Moses hadn’t “seen” God yet – However, he forsook Egypt by “faith” as if he had “seen” Him (that’s the essence of “faith” – not seeing, but still believing!).

Hebrews 11:28 Through “faith” he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

Hebrews 11:29 By “faith” they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

Hebrews 11:30 By “faith” the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.

Hebrews 11:31 By “faith” the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

Hebrews 11:32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
33 Who through “faith” subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
38 (Of whom the world was not worthy) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

Hebrews 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through “faith”, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

NOTICE: That “thing” – again.

Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our “faith”; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Hebrews Chapter 11 certainly gives us the “definition” of “faith" and the “importance” of “faith”; but more than these two very important points – it gives us illustrations of HOW “faith” works and demonstrates “faith” in operation so that we: “through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.”

REMEMBER: the “things” hoped for? [Hebrews 11:1]

Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

Thomas needed to see in order to believe. The Lord Jesus Christ rebukes Thomas for being "faithless" (John 20:27). He was not talking about a "lack" of “faith” - He was rebuking Thomas for having NO “FAITH”. He refused to believe the disciples words (the record - the words of God). In John 20:29 the Lord clearly states: "because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." Thomas refused to believe by "faith" - he insisted (required) on "seeing", and when he "saw" he believed. Those of us who have heard the word of God and believed have done so by "faith", without seeing. There is a difference - the Lord Jesus Christ said so. (John 20:29)

John 20:24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Thomas was "faithless" and refused to "believe" unless he could actually: "see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe." (John 20:25)

The Bible states quite clearly HOW faith comes:

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

So then, Thomas refused to hear the words of God (the disciples' testimony), and in doing so he refused to believe (by "faith"). Instead he insisted on SEEING before he would BELIEVE - Again "FAITH" had nothing to do with his believing - IF "faith" cometh by hearing the word of God - which since the Scriptures declare it to be so - I accept the Bible record with no emendations, subtractions, or additions.

Psalms 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.

PAGE 27 > My POST #261
Aloha brother Sammy,

A word of caution: I would be very careful in a debate or discussion over Scripture in advancing your point using a "grammatical" argument. No. 1 - because there are no examples of such a "method" in the Holy Scriptures themselves; and No. 2 - because these are points made "academically" with the "intellect" (the mind) and not with the heart. {See my Post #1 Rejection of God's Words = EVIL - under "Bible Studies" - this Forum; or my study on "the heart of the matter" on my web page.}

In America we have far too much "intellectual" Christianity (grounded in Academia and based on the "mind"); and far too little Biblical Christianity (grounded on the Scriptures, and based on the heart).

Please remember that we believe with our heart NOT our mind:
Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

We are to hide God's word in our heart NOT our mind:
Psalms 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

We are to diligently "keep" our "heart" NOT our mind:
Proverbs 4:23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.

All of the "issues of life" proceed from out of our "heart" NOT our mind:
Matthew 12:34 . . . for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Matthew 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
Matthew 12:35A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

The Bible testimony is clear: All of mankind has a "heart problem". We are all born with a deceitful and wicked "heart":
Ecclesiastes 9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

By now you might be asking what's the point? the point is while we are born with a deceitful "heart" we have to work on, or "mold" the "mind" in order to "corrupt" it (and that's where the wrong kind of "schooling" or "education" comes in). For nearly 2,000 years, apostasy in God's churches has "always" been introduced and promoted by the academic "elites", the "intellectual class" (without one exception!).

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. [1Timothy 6:5; 2 Timothy 3:]

IF the following quote is true:

Sammy's Quote:

"So, if believe and faith mean the same, except that one is a verb and the other is a noun,"

How do you deal with this verse?

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Can you substitute the word "believe" {or “belief”} for "faith"? I think not. {Try it.} Unless we are to believe that our "belief" is a gift from God. We are saved through "faith", and "it" {"faith"} is God's "gift" to us because we "heard" the word of God and "believed" in our hearts (the Gospel of the Grace of God) and He "gifted" us with "faith" - His "faith" NOT ours. It's our "BELIEF" - it's His "FAITH". I cannot see how they can possibly be "the same".

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be
justified.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Philippians 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

We obtained like precious "faith" (God's precious "gift" to us) by "believing" in our "hearts", after we heard the Gospel of the Grace of God.

I know that there also plenty of verses that talk about our "faith" in the Lord Jesus Christ, but the preceding verses tell us where our "faith" came from - it's a "gift" from God {the Lord Jesus Christ "earned it - it was His "faith" that persevered - it's His to give} - it's ours - but it came from God because we believed!

Respectfully submitted,
Your brother in Christ,
George

PAGE 27 > My POST #267
Aloha brother Sammy,

I want to be careful here - but I never said: "the "grammatical" method should be done away with". I was giving a warning about the use of grammatical "terms" (I wasn't clear when I used the term: "Grammatical method". Sorry!)

Here is my quote: Quote:

A word of caution: I would be very careful in a debate or discussion over Scripture in advancing your point using a "grammatical" argument. No. 1 - because there are no examples of such a "method" in the Holy Scriptures themselves;

Concerning your example: Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

My point is that Paul never used "grammatical terms" (verb, noun, synonyms, etc.) in order "convince" someone of a Scriptural truth. And since most ordinary people do not understand "grammar" (who does? ), the use of the grammatical "terms" only introduces a "foreign element" into a scriptural point.

Your previous quote:

Is "believe" (verb) the same as "faith" (noun)? I have encountered people here (actually my classmates in Bible school) who seems to over divide the word to the extent of saying that "believe" is not "faith". My answer was of course they are different parts of speech. One can not say:
"Thomas faith in Christ", but
"Thomas believes in Christ";
nor can a person say, "
Thomas has no believe", but:
"Thomas has no faith".

So, if believe and faith mean the same, except that one is a verb and the other is a noun, then according to Jesus Christ:
Thomas believed (verb) because he has seen (verb); or Thomas had faith (noun) after he had sight, or
Thomas had belief (synonym of faith) after he had vision (synonym of sight).

You may find this hard to believe, but I have never studied the Bible in this manner. Just like I have never used "Strong's Concordance to look up the "meaning" of a word in Hebrew or Greek, since I don't trust "scholars" to give me the "meaning" of a word in English.

I try to "rightly divide" the word of truth comparing Scripture with Scripture and leave out all other extemporaneous distractions.

Aloha brother Forrest,
Sorry for the looong Post! You asked for it! There's more where that came from, but I'll quit - for now.