[stephanos]

Originally Posted by Renee

Gophgetter, Stephanos

1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

2 Timothy 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

Now I say He is able to keep my soul. Do you claim to be greater then The Almighty and all Powerful God who made you, that you can pluck yourself out of His, The Son, and the Holy Spirit's hand?

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

No God does not change His mind, neither does He lie.

Renee

First of all Renee, you need to relax. Your responses to gophgetter concern me, and it is clear you would like to now shift the attention to myself now that you all have effectively rid yourselves of gophgetter. Throwing stones at everyone you think is wrong, and ostracizing them as heretics is NOT the way. Perhaps you should have let those who are stronger in the Scriptures help gophgetter understand the dispensational viewpoint (since I now see that this is the only acceptable viewpoint on these forums, despite diligents original intent which he expressed on http://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2). Secondly, could you not single me out like this anymore. I have always stated that salvation is by grace through faith. I do add that salvation is conditional upon "faith" but I don't see anywhere in the entire Holy Bible where this belief is contradictory to what is taught therein.

John 17:11-26 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

I want you to know that I nearly cried when you told him that he isn't a part of the family. I assure you Renee, Christ Jesus sees things differently. You should not be so hasty to judge a brother in Christ, even one who differs greatly in his take on core doctrine. Perhaps gophgetter never heard things preached the way you and I have? Perhaps he simply needed someone to show him that salvation is indeed by grace through faith, someone besides those that write "you gotta rightly divide" on every other post. I'm not saying here I disagree with right division of Scripture, I'm saying that some people, myself included, need to hear things from those that aren't so pretentious in their own understanding, someone whose message is salted a little more with the love of the brethren.

for Jesus' sake,
Stephen