[George]

Originally Posted by Connie

You're splitting hairs to no purpose. If hundreds of thousands could witness the amazing events the first generation of Israelites did and still dance around a golden idol, or for that matter if thousands could witness the miracles Jesus did and still end up choosing Barabbas over Him, that proves that seeing means absolutely nothing. It's the faith that lives on after the initial seeing that matters. Thomas needed to see in order to have faith. We are to learn from that incident (which God orchestrated in order to teach us this lesson), that we are in no worse position than any of the disciples were, because physical seeing has nothing to do with how anybody gets saved.

Anyway, we DO see, we see by the eyes of faith, the only ones that count.

OK, I know I'm not going to change your mind nor you mine, so I won't say any more.

I find it interesting, and again very instructive, that although I made no comment (positive or negative) about your "view" on this matter that you could not restrain yourself from making a critical remark about what I believe.

"You're splitting hairs to no purpose."

That's your "opinion" (for what it's worth), however, I have been commanded to: "rightly divide the word of truth" and no amount of "harmonizing" and "private interpretation" on your part will get me to change God's method of study just because you choose to ignore it!

Thomas needed to see in order to believe You are reading into the Scripture your "private opinion". The Lord Jesus Christ rebukes Thomas for being "faithless" (John 20:27). He was not talking about a "lack" of faith - He was rebuking Thomas for having NO FAITH! He refused to believe the disciples words (the record - the words of God). In John 20:29 the Lord clearly states: "because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." Thomas refused to believe by "faith" - he insisted (required) on "seeing", and when he "saw" he believed. Those of us who have heard the word of God and believed have done so by "faith", without seeing. There is a difference - the Lord Jesus Christ said so! (John 20:29)

Thomas was "faithless" and refused to "believe" unless he could actually: "see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe." (John 20:25)

"Anyway, we DO see, we see by the eyes of faith, the only ones that count." {Chapter & Verse please?}

Why do you continue to "insist" on making declarative statements based on your "private opinion" as if they were equal to the words of God? The Bible states quite clearly HOW faith comes and contrary to your "private opinion" "SEEING" has NOTHING to do with it:

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

So then, Thomas refused to hear the words of God (the disciples' testimony), and in doing so he refused to believe (by "faith"). Instead he insisted on SEEING before he would BELIEVE - Again "FAITH" had nothing to do with his believing - IF "faith" cometh by hearing the word of God - which since the Scriptures declare it to be so - I accept the Bible record with no emendations, subtractions, or additions from you or anyone else.

John 20:24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.