Quote:
Originally Posted by Winman
Bro Tony
I agree with you about letting the Bible define itself, however, Luke 22:32 is very different from all the other verses with the word "converted" in it. It is very easy to see that all the other verses concern unsaved sinners who need to be converted and trust in Christ for salvation. But Peter was not lost. He had confessed his belief in Jesus earlier.
Luke 9:20 He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God.
And Jesus himself confirmed that Peter had faith, and prayed that his faith not fail.
Luke 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: 32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
So in this verse, converted cannot mean an unsaved sinner turning to God for salvation. Peter was already saved when the Lord said he had prayed that Peter's fail fail not.
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Ps 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and
take not thy holy spirit from me.
Ps 51:13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and
sinners shall be
converted unto thee.
Mt 16:23 But he turned, and said unto
Peter, Get
thee behind me,
Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Mr 8:33 But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples,
he rebuked Peter, saying,
Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.
Brother Win, I am not being contentious with you, but as we are looking back on the events we can feel this way and that way without actually being there in the moment, yet since OT salvation and NT salvation were different, I believe the Lord meant just what He said. There was
no New Birth in the OT regardless of what John R. Rice may have taught, and God giving His Spirit to even a saint of David's stature could also be withdrawn, and I don't believe Peter nor any of the apostles had any more of the positive assurance of salvation than David did
because Christ had not died and resurrected yet. I agree with POTW that it is a beautiful figure, similitude, of Christ as mediator, but at this time Christ and the Twelve are
preaching the gospel of the kingdom of Ex. 19 and Is. 61, not Paul's gospel of grace. When we come upon a puzzling statement or incident like this, we need to not look at it through the glasses of 2009, we need to do like the old TIME TUNNEL TV show from the 60s, we need to go back to that time, look around, and say to ourselves, what has happened here, what is happening, and what is yet to happen, what's going on here?
Win, I'm not picking a fight with you on this, I just believe that when the Lord indicated Peter was in an unconverted condition, He mean just that, Peter,
when thou art converted, He meant just what He said, that conversion for Peter was yet in the future, and that Psalms 51 gives us the definition of the word.
Grace and peace to you brother.
Tony