Revelation 22:19
 

"And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."-Revelation 22:19

Ok, this verse if used very commonly for the defense of the KJO position, since we believe it to be the Word of God, and those who remove or add to it be found liars in the sight of Holy God.

MY problem with the citing of this verse is this: Isn't the writer speaking of "the book of THIS prophecy"? While the Bible is filled with prophecy, aren't we only talking about Revelation, of which the entire book is prophecy? Book meaning 1/66th of the Bible, since there are 66 books in the Bible?

I take heed to the promise in this verse, that those who take away from (what I believe the writer to be talking about) Revelation, will have their name taken out of the book of life, and those who add to (what I believe the writer to be talking about) Revelation shall have the plagues inflicted upon him.

My question flat out is: isn't "The book of THIS prophecy" talking about Revelation?

I believe it is referring to the BOOK, the Bible - all of Scripture. Revelation is the capstone of the Bible, but it is the sum and concluding of all the rest of the Book.

There are warnings in the beginning of the Bible, in the middle, near the end of the OT, and now at the end of the NT.

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Deuteronomy 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Proverbs 30:5-6 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Jeremiah 26:2 Thus saith the LORD; Stand in the court of the LORD'S house, and speak unto all the cities of Judah, which come to worship in the LORD'S house, all the words that I command thee to speak unto them; diminish not a word:

2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Revelation 22:18-19 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

1) The word prophecy is used in at least one place in Revelation to refer to ALL of the Word of God:

Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

The testimony/witness of Jesus is the heart of the whole Bible (my paraphrase).

2) Those other warnings spaced throughout the Bible show a principle of not adding to or taking away from ANY of the Bible - so even if, strictly speaking, it is directly referring to the book of Revelation, the application is to the WHOLE Bible.

Is all the Bible prophecy? I think not, even though the whole Bible is the special revelation of Jesus Christ.

So if I take words out of...say Joshua, my name will be taken out of the book of life?

2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

All Scripture is considered prophecy, ie. revelation from God.

You're right, but that brings us back to the original question, could Revelation 22:19 be talking only about the book of prophecy of Revelation?


And if yes, then does that mean that those who omit from the Bible, which is all prophecy, lost their place in the book of life?

Brother, this is huge.

I don't believe any true Christian can lose their salvation. God keeps His own. What I do believe is that professing (but not possessing) Christians or apostates are going to be shocked one day to find that they were not really saved (if they ever thought they were). These people that Revelation 22:18-19 are referring to are the lost - though they may have a form of godliness, they are tares among the wheat, wolves among the sheep.

The Book or letter to the seven churches was just that. A letter to the seven churches. The Book we call the Bible was not even assembled at this time. Most of the books, as we call them, written by Paul were letters to people and to churches. This statement in Rev. 22:18-19 is talking only about the letter that was written to the seven churches.

That will be little consolation to those who have deliberately removed portions of the book of Revelation from God's word (like Westcott and Hort):

1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

5:14: And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

21:24: And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

It is talking about all the plagues mentioned in the whole Bible.
Paul Foltz

They were 7 churches then existing. Typically they represent the course of the church
age. Spiritually represent 7 different kinds of local churches, and 7 different kinds of
believers.
Paul Foltz

Aloha brother,

{A caveat: :) This advise is not meant to be a criticism or in any way a put down of you or your desire to know the "Truth". You have a "head start" on me since I wasn't saved until I turned 18 (1958) and didn't really "get into" the Bible until 10 years later - 1968}

I admire your desire to know the "Truth", and the questions that you ask demonstrate that. However, at this point in time, it appears to me that you need to get a "better handle" on: "the manifold wisdom of God" and "all the council of God". [Ephesians 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,] - [Acts 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.]
For instance: Not all "prophecy" is "foretelling" i.e. the future. Much of it is "forthtelling" i.e. God speaking directly through a Jewish prophet to His people (Israel) and instructing them or warning them or, at times, royally "chewing them out".

There are mainly 3 "KEYS" in the Bible for learning these things:

1. First and foremost - The Holy Spirit.
You can obtain Bible knowledge from men (a school, a church, the family, etc.) and you can even get some discernment from these sources. BUT, true Biblical Understanding and Wisdom comes from God only. Having had 7 children I learned (over time) that I cannot give my children, or anyone else for that matter, the understanding and wisdom that God has given me. I can share it with them (and others), but its up to them to seek out God as to whether the things that I say are true. ["These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." Acts 17:11]

2. Secondly you must learn to - Rightly Divide.
The first 10 years of my Christian life I bounced around from "pillar to post" because I had no idea on how to "rightly divide" the word of God (and no one taught me). That simply means you have to be able to discern between the Jew; the Gentile; and the Church. God has divisions in His Holy Scriptures and a Dispensational study is very helpful in understanding these divisions. (A word of caution here: We Christians tend to come on to a "truth" and some times "run off into the sunset" with it, or get on a "Hobby Horse" and "ride it to death". And sometimes we have zeal - BUT, "not according to knowledge".) Be prudent and circumspect in your studies - Remember that the Bible is not like a "text book". God has written It in such a way that you have to search for the "Truth"..

3. Thirdly, you must be especially aware of the JEWS {Hebrews} in God's plan of the ages.
Of the 66 Books in the Bible, at least 64 have been written by Jews (Luke possibly being the only exception) Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

Over the years I have learned that:

Almost all False Teaching & Doctrine comes from:

1. Commandments given exclusively to the Jews and expropriated by a church; a cult; or an individual.
2. Or Promises of God given exclusively to the Jews and expropriated by a church; a cult; or an individual.
3. Or Prophecies concerning only the Jews and expropriated by a church; a cult; or an individual.

If you will remember these things in your study and be like the wise old owl and say: WHO said that? or WHO was he speaking to? or WHO should follow & obey? or WHO does this apply to or WHO is this written to? many problems in the understanding of the Scriptures disappear.

Try to remember that all Scripture has three applications:
1. Historical
2. Spiritual
3. Doctrinal

There's a lot more to the study of the Bible, but I don't have the space here to share it with you. Brandon's Swordsearcher Program is an almost indispensable tool and has been a terrific aid in my studies. (I have been using a copy of his program since around 1996).

A word of warning. Whoever you learn from - always check him out. Whatever school you may go to - always check them out. A study of church history reveals that almost all of the false doctrine that has entered the churches throughout history has entered by the "intelligentsia" i.e. the "scholars" (the nerds & pin-heads); and the church leadership i.e. elders & pastors (the "big shots".)

A fact of 1900+ years of church history: Once a church, a school, or a man turns their back on God's word - God eventually turns His back on them and they become reprobate and then apostate!

• Every church established from 33 A.D. up to 1900 has apostatized (without one exception).
• Almost all of those churches have simply disappeared.
• All of the few churches that have remained until today (Roman Catholic; Eastern Orthodox; etc,) - are false and counterfeit
• Apostasy always (without exception) began with the church “leadership”.
• Most of the church “leadership” came from the “intelligentsia” or the “educated” class.
• Most of the ordinary Christians blindly followed the church “leaders”.
• Concerned Christians were powerless to stop a church from going apostate.
∆ NO CHURCH HAS EVER RECOVERED FROM APOSTASY!

[This also holds true for every so-called “Christian” Organization created by men.]

No amount of rules, regulations, ordinances, edicts, restrictions, or laws have ever been able to prevent Apostasy. And no amount of compromise can bring a church back from it.

May God bless you in your study of His Holy word and pursuit of the "Truth".

George

I'm with you Paladin54.

John introduces his last book as
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass...who bare record of the things which he saw. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein:...

He closes the book as you have quoted,
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith,...

It seems a "no-brainer" that upon comparison the introduction and conclusion are referencing the same thing. If the end refers to the whole Book, then the first three verse do as well. But they cannot, for Rev. 1:19 says,
Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
John is referring only to the things that he wrote in this particular book.

But lets go deeper.

Did he say that God would take away his name out of the book of life as you quoted in post #1??? Or did he say his part?
Is there a difference?
(This may help some understand why accusing all Bible correctors of being lost is not necessarily true.)

Wow, thank you Brothers. I can't put into words my gratitude.

If you think it is only Revelations that God is talking about, what about the words taken out of Revelations as Diligent pointed out?

There is prophecy through out the entire Bible. All of the Bible is God breathed. Why would we ever want to defend changing words, taking out words of any portion of the Bible?

Depending upon the context, the term prophecy can refer to all of the Bible, not just a particular portion or book (such as Revelation).

2 Peter 1:19-21 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

God doesn't want man to add to, take away from, change, twist or wrest any part of Scripture.

Was he not showing words that Westcott and Hort removed in their text? Maybe I missed his point.

Where do you get the idea that we're defending changing the text of scripture, or making allowances for some to do it? Reread the start of this thread. The question was in reference to what John was talking about at the close of his book. I think I addressed clearly why I believe that John was referring only to the book that he was writing.

I was in no way suggesting that "you can pick and choose all throughout the Bible, but not in Revelation..."

I believe the commands to leave God's words untouched in Deut. and Prov. etc., and I would never condone ANYONE adding/subtracting/altering the words of God.

It looks to me like he was bolding the words W-H took out. I just looked in my NIV and they are in fact gone. Do you see this as a problem?


I guess I'm not sure what y'all are trying to accomplish. It looks like you are defending the fact that there will not be consequences for messing with God's Word.

You said you're with Paladin, so this is where it looks as though those that take away from the Bible in other places should be ok.

Pray tell, what is the difference? I hear this everywhere! What is a professor and a possessor? Please give me a clear picture, thankyou.

There are a lot of people who call themselves Christians (ie. profess to believe), but have never truly trusted the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation - perhaps they never understood the Gospel, perhaps they know what the Gospel means but were unwilling to repent of their sins, perhaps all they did was say a prayer without knowing the truth of who Jesus truly is or what He did to save us, perhaps they are still trying to work their way to Heaven. All these profess salvation, profess to be saved - but are truly not saved. Ie. they are professors, not possessers - they are not born again, do not have the Holy Spirit indwelling them; therefore it is no surprise that when they get disillusioned about the "Christian life" - which they are perhaps trying to live without having the Holy Spirit inside enabling them to live it - they "reject Christ", and apostasize from the faith - which they never truly possessed to begin with. That is what this passage and Hebrews 6 refers to:

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Those that left "the faith" - ie. apostasized from the true believers - were never truly of them (ie. true believers). It is not a loss of salvation, but a rejection of their previous profession.

Most of that makes sense, except

"perhaps they know what the Gospel means but were unwilling to repent of their sins"

I don't understand how one can repent of their sins if they aren't saved. One can be sorry, they could turn over a new leaf, but without being born again, one cannot actually repent and forsake sins.

I think a better way of wording that would be "They know what the Gospel means but want to continue living in sin, and not be changed by it's power".

Otherwise, I suppose that every Christian should be merely a professor, as not a single Christian on earth has repented of all their sins and stopped committing them.

I wouldn't know of a clearer explanation of a professing Christian and a possessing Christian. Or a false convert to Christianity vs. a Christian.

I guess we'll have to wait and see if it is clear to all.

That is not what the Bible says.

Who said anything of repenting of ALL their sins? If you present the ten commandments to someone you are witnessing to - then you should expect them to either repent of those ones they have broken, or to hold on to their sins and reject the Gospel. There is no such thing as deliberately holding on to sin and receiving the Saviour at the same time. If someone is presented with the commandments they have broken and still holds on to those sins while at the same time "turning to the Lord", they are deceiving themself. What are they turning to the Lord for? I turned to the Lord to save me from my sins and to forgive me for them - that meant a turning away from those sins in my heart and a turning toward the Saviour - which is exactly what the Bible teaches.

Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

I stopped running my way in life, and started going God's way.

Sorry to change the topic from Revelation...

How would a person know if they are a false convert?

I believe Jesus Christ died for sinners. I admit I am a sinner. I believe Jesus Christ died for me. I have called upon Him to save me from Hell, from myself, from my sin.

Following my conversion, roughly seven years ago, I have sinned, sinned and sinned some more, and felt guilty about it all the time, until I came to a point where I almost lost the feeling of guilt, and could almost sin without feeling guilty. This was a real wake up call for me, and I fervently prayed that God would increase my faith and help me to trust in Him more to overcome temptation, and since that time, I have had the most severe testing of my faith ever. I am not even in any gross sin anymore (I am not without sin, everything done without faith is sin), but I constantly doubt my salvation. And yet, what more can I do to be saved?

I hate sin, specifically, I hate my own sin. I despise it. I despise my past. I believe Jesus Christ died for me. I believe Jesus Christ is the Saviour of all those who call upon His name believing the Gospel, and yet I have no assurance, because of a lack of trust. I cry out "Lord, I believe, help thou my unbelief", and no respite comes.

No doubt there are some who would look at my life in the last six years and proclaim that I am not saved because of gross misadventure. And yet, if they would merely venture into the prayer closet with me and hear the cries from my heart, I wonder if they would dare do the same?

I'm hoping that Jerry will be able to address your questions as I can see you may be hurting. The only thing that came to mind is this passage:
Personally I can tell you that I know God has a hold of me and won't ever let me go.

I continue to sin and now have much grief over my sin. Before I was saved I was apathetic re: my sin. I will say that the grief is so overwhelming that it causes me to stop the sin. and then a new sin will later be revealed to me and the process starts again. This is sanctification. The Lord has sanctified me through fire. The harder the trial, the more I have learned.

A Christian will grow in the fruits of the Spirit.

Luke, I would encourage you to look up verses dealing with assurance (and persuaded) - including the phrase, "full assurance." 1 John is an excellent book dealing with how we know we are Christians - through our obedience, love for the truth, love for the brethren, etc. If you came to the Lord the way He commands us to in His Word, then you should have that assurance.

First of all, it is the Holy Spirit that bears witness with our spirit:

Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

1 John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

We also get assurance through our obedience and closely walking with the Lord:

1 John 3:19-22 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

If there is sin you are deliberately holding onto - or even an area of your life, where you know God's will but refuse to do it - then you will not have that assurance God wants to give you.

Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.

Full assurance - entire confidence, completely assured. To be full of something Biblically means to be influenced or controlled by it. Full assurance is where your daily conduct is influenced by your assurance of your right standing with the Lord, your inheritance in Him, etc.

Full assurance of understanding - knowing the riches you have in the Lord Jesus Christ:

Colossians 2:2-3 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

Ephesians 1:17-19 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

Full assurance of hope - filled with the confident expectation that the Lord will reward your service to Him, and will keep all His promises to you - in light of that you persevere when the going gets tougher:

Hebrews 6:9-12 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end: That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Full assurance of faith - this is the assurance that comes through prayer, coming before the throne of grace - through the blood of Jesus, not your own good deeds or righteousness.

Hebrews 10:19-25 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having an high priest over the house of God; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Ephesians 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

This is one of the verses that came up in my Bible program while I was searching for related passages:

2 Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

This verse is part of a passage on the Christian continuing to grow in seven areas. Please consider this study, as it might be of some help to you: Precious And Growing Faith